How to quickly determine Surprise

[DNH]

I understand the Surprise rules and what happens when one side has surprise (no actions, limited actions, etc) but I have never really figured out the best way of determining it. I mean, should I roll Perception checks for all combatants at the start of each encounter? Should I use Passive Perception to simplify things (though I would still have to check each combatant)? Do I do it individually, or can I do one check for the PCs and one for the monsters? Or is there some other, quicker, more intuitive way that I haven't thought of? And I haven't even started on monsters gaining surprise against the PCs.

Thanks.

 

[Ryujin]

Unless the players request a Perception roll, you'll be using their passive values.

 

[Rothe_]

Well, obviously you don't always even have either side be surprised. Just roll for initiative.

Also, it is not necessarily so that everybody gets a surprise round. More often than not, in my game the few stealthy characters who sneak ahead of the party get surprise and they get the surprise round. The others will join on the next round.

Don't roll perception unless someone is doing something to warrant an active check. For instance if someone tells you that they stop to listen at the door, that would give that character an active check in my game. The others get passive perception only.

 

[Zinovia]

I generally only allow surprise if the attack was unexpected. Recently the entire group got a surprise round against some slavers because they pretended to be interested in buying the slave rather than fighting. The slavers were suspicious, but some bluff checks, negotiation of a price, and handing over the money convinced the slavers that they had some real customers on their hands. The slave was handed over, and once he was in a relatively safe spot, the group attacked with a free surprise round against foes who had moved out of their defensive positions.

When the rogue is sneaking around, I will give him surpise against an enemy if he has remained undetected. Likewise with the bad guys. Otherwise, both sides just roll initiative, which is how it happens in the vast majority of the combats.

 

[Neuroglyph]

I generally only allow surprise if the attack was unexpected. Recently the entire group got a surprise round against some slavers because they pretended to be interested in buying the slave rather than fighting. The slavers were suspicious, but some bluff checks, negotiation of a price, and handing over the money convinced the slavers that they had some real customers on their hands. The slave was handed over, and once he was in a relatively safe spot, the group attacked with a free surprise round against foes who had moved out of their defensive positions.

Not to get off topic too much, but was your surprise scenario based then upon Party Active Bluff vs. Slaver Passive Insight? Seems like an interesting example of a surprise encounter not based upon Active Stealth vs. Passive Perception, which so many of them are.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Not to get off topic too much, but was your surprise scenario based then upon Party Active Bluff vs. Slaver Passive Insight? Seems like an interesting example of a surprise encounter not based upon Active Stealth vs. Passive Perception, which so many of them are.

That is certainly a valid way for a party to gain surprise based on skill and tactics.

Realistically surprise is largely a DM mediated thing. If you look at what the DMG has to say about it. It boils down to the DM is going to decide whether or not either side was anticipating attack and as long as a threat is expected you can't be surprised. Stealth can be a factor in that a threat may not be apparent and by extrapolation something like the slaver scenario can likewise work as the party is not APPARENTLY a threat.

Overall the DM is likely going to decree surprise or not in most situations with a possibility for the other side to avoid it via a passive or active check.

Note that as far as stealth/perception goes the DMG outlines a system where the lowest stealth member of a group makes a check and that sets the DC for detecting that group. A creature which is 10 or more squares from the main body of the group can take a separate check.