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*Pathfinder & Starfinder
how to reduce will save of an undead(incorporeal) creature?
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<blockquote data-quote="glass" data-source="post: 8699745" data-attributes="member: 12251"><p>OK, fair enough, sorry; I clicked the link to check there were no extra immunities or anything, but I did not read the full text of that ability. Of course, "as if the polong were under the effect of a <em>dominate monster</em> spell" means "not at all", but it is clearly intended to work, so let's pretend they remembered to specify it bypassed their mind-affecting immunity.</p><p></p><p>Given that, arguably <a href="https://www.aonprd.com/SpellDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Bestow%20Curse" target="_blank"><em>bestow curse</em></a> would work. It is not very clearly worded, but given the context of the spell having a duration I would interpret "decrease of an ability score" to inflict a penalty (which makes the "cannot go below 1" part nonsense, but a lot of spells have that particular dysfunction). And since ability penalties work like ability damage, undead are not immune to them (as long as they are not to physical scores). A six-point penalty to Wisdom is a three-point penalty to Will saves. Sadly most things that inflict damage or penalties on mental score are Mind-affecting themselves, but <em>bestow curse</em> is not.</p><p></p><p>Unfortunately, it is <em>bestow curse</em> is also a will save, but due to the permanent duration you only need to land it once (unless you deliberately <em>dispel</em> it so your assassin is not vulnerable to Will-save spells from its target and their allies). A <a href="https://www.aonprd.com/WitchHexes.aspx" target="_blank">Misfortune hex</a> could help you land either this or the <em>dominate</em> (possibly both if the Witch is at least eight level).</p><p></p><p>Hope this helps (this time).</p><p></p><p><em>EDIT: Another possibility is cast </em><a href="https://www.aonprd.com/SpellDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Control%20Undead" target="_blank">control undead</a><em> and then order the polong to deliberate fail its save agains the </em>dominate<em>. This also has a Will save, but a decently optimised caster is going to have a save DC much higher than 20. OTOH, if you are chucking seventh-level spells about, it is probably not worth going to that much effort to secure a CR 8 assassin! </em>Command undead<em> as mentioned above would work at a more reasonable level, but obviously the DC would be commensurately lower, and deliberately allowing itself to be </em>dominated <em>is definitely something the polong "wouldn't ordinarily do", so you would also need to pass an opposed charisma check.</em></p><p></p><p>_</p><p>glass.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="glass, post: 8699745, member: 12251"] OK, fair enough, sorry; I clicked the link to check there were no extra immunities or anything, but I did not read the full text of that ability. Of course, "as if the polong were under the effect of a [I]dominate monster[/I] spell" means "not at all", but it is clearly intended to work, so let's pretend they remembered to specify it bypassed their mind-affecting immunity. Given that, arguably [URL='https://www.aonprd.com/SpellDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Bestow%20Curse'][I]bestow curse[/I][/URL] would work. It is not very clearly worded, but given the context of the spell having a duration I would interpret "decrease of an ability score" to inflict a penalty (which makes the "cannot go below 1" part nonsense, but a lot of spells have that particular dysfunction). And since ability penalties work like ability damage, undead are not immune to them (as long as they are not to physical scores). A six-point penalty to Wisdom is a three-point penalty to Will saves. Sadly most things that inflict damage or penalties on mental score are Mind-affecting themselves, but [I]bestow curse[/I] is not. Unfortunately, it is [I]bestow curse[/I] is also a will save, but due to the permanent duration you only need to land it once (unless you deliberately [I]dispel[/I] it so your assassin is not vulnerable to Will-save spells from its target and their allies). A [URL='https://www.aonprd.com/WitchHexes.aspx']Misfortune hex[/URL] could help you land either this or the [I]dominate[/I] (possibly both if the Witch is at least eight level). Hope this helps (this time). [I]EDIT: Another possibility is cast [/I][URL='https://www.aonprd.com/SpellDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Control%20Undead']control undead[/URL][I] and then order the polong to deliberate fail its save agains the [/I]dominate[I]. This also has a Will save, but a decently optimised caster is going to have a save DC much higher than 20. OTOH, if you are chucking seventh-level spells about, it is probably not worth going to that much effort to secure a CR 8 assassin! [/I]Command undead[I] as mentioned above would work at a more reasonable level, but obviously the DC would be commensurately lower, and deliberately allowing itself to be [/I]dominated [I]is definitely something the polong "wouldn't ordinarily do", so you would also need to pass an opposed charisma check.[/I] _ glass. [/QUOTE]
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how to reduce will save of an undead(incorporeal) creature?
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