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How to skill check (and why 5e got stealth wrong)
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<blockquote data-quote="FrogReaver" data-source="post: 7798422" data-attributes="member: 6795602"><p>I want to provide an alternative framework to the goal and approach method that's gotten so much attention the last few days. I'm going to call it the situation - action method.</p><p></p><p>Skill checks are inherently about resolving uncertainty. That's why when there isn't uncertain there's no point in rolling. That said, skill checks are not about resolving uncertainty relating to your goal, but rather uncertainty brought about through whatever action you took to achieve your goal. A simple example might help.</p><p></p><p><strong>Goal: </strong> You want to the Lord Mayor of the Town to not increase hostilities with their neighboring town. <strong>Action:</strong> You attempt to persuade him. <strong>Resolution of Action</strong>: The DM determines there's no chance you can persuade him, <strong>Consequences of Action: </strong>but there is uncertainty about whether your attempt to persuade him will anger him. So he calls for a persuasion roll to determine whether the Lord Mayor is angry at you.</p><p></p><p>When should the DM demand an approach to go along with the action? When the approach might change the outcome or the DC he will set.</p><p></p><p><strong>Approach: </strong>In the above example, the action to attempt to persuade the Lord Mayor could have been met with the DM asking the player to clarify "what he says or does to persuade him", because the DM knows that if you mention something about Blithe the sorcerer desiring the increased tensions that the Lord Mayor has a real chance to heed your advice. In this case the approach becomes important even though it isn't always.</p><p></p><p>So far I've explained the Action Framework. What do I mean about situation? Well this part is simple as well. Currently in D&D we pit players against individual NPC's. For example, consider a rogue attempting to sneak up to a camp of orcs we measure the pc vs each member's passive perception in the camp of orcs (assuming it's uncertain in the first place). That resolution method doesn't make sense other than under a heavy simulationist framework. The current method would be to resolve the Rogue's Action of sneaking up to the camp of orcs by comparing the pc's stealth check to each individual orc's passive perception. The better method would be for the DM to set a DC that takes into account the whole situation. In this case a camp of orcs on the lookout might be assigned a DC 20.</p><p></p><p>Going back to the Lord Mayor persuasion example, the DC may depend on who else is present for the persuasion attempt, or if you chose a particularly busy time to bring this before the Lord Mayor etc.</p><p></p><p>Anyways, this is my preferred resolution methodology. Determine if a check needs made by considering both the action and the consequences of that action, and only asking for additional approach information as needed and then if either of them auto succeed or fail and what consequences the action may have for failure or success. If a check gets made assign a DC that takes into account the whole situation. </p><p></p><p>Hopefully this helps put some thought and definition into the more traditional styles.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="FrogReaver, post: 7798422, member: 6795602"] I want to provide an alternative framework to the goal and approach method that's gotten so much attention the last few days. I'm going to call it the situation - action method. Skill checks are inherently about resolving uncertainty. That's why when there isn't uncertain there's no point in rolling. That said, skill checks are not about resolving uncertainty relating to your goal, but rather uncertainty brought about through whatever action you took to achieve your goal. A simple example might help. [B]Goal: [/B] You want to the Lord Mayor of the Town to not increase hostilities with their neighboring town. [B]Action:[/B] You attempt to persuade him. [B]Resolution of Action[/B]: The DM determines there's no chance you can persuade him, [B]Consequences of Action: [/B]but there is uncertainty about whether your attempt to persuade him will anger him. So he calls for a persuasion roll to determine whether the Lord Mayor is angry at you. When should the DM demand an approach to go along with the action? When the approach might change the outcome or the DC he will set. [B]Approach: [/B]In the above example, the action to attempt to persuade the Lord Mayor could have been met with the DM asking the player to clarify "what he says or does to persuade him", because the DM knows that if you mention something about Blithe the sorcerer desiring the increased tensions that the Lord Mayor has a real chance to heed your advice. In this case the approach becomes important even though it isn't always. So far I've explained the Action Framework. What do I mean about situation? Well this part is simple as well. Currently in D&D we pit players against individual NPC's. For example, consider a rogue attempting to sneak up to a camp of orcs we measure the pc vs each member's passive perception in the camp of orcs (assuming it's uncertain in the first place). That resolution method doesn't make sense other than under a heavy simulationist framework. The current method would be to resolve the Rogue's Action of sneaking up to the camp of orcs by comparing the pc's stealth check to each individual orc's passive perception. The better method would be for the DM to set a DC that takes into account the whole situation. In this case a camp of orcs on the lookout might be assigned a DC 20. Going back to the Lord Mayor persuasion example, the DC may depend on who else is present for the persuasion attempt, or if you chose a particularly busy time to bring this before the Lord Mayor etc. Anyways, this is my preferred resolution methodology. Determine if a check needs made by considering both the action and the consequences of that action, and only asking for additional approach information as needed and then if either of them auto succeed or fail and what consequences the action may have for failure or success. If a check gets made assign a DC that takes into account the whole situation. Hopefully this helps put some thought and definition into the more traditional styles. [/QUOTE]
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