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Message: <blockquote data-quote="meltdownpass" data-source="post: 8218575" data-attributes="member: 7029921">To pile on here, it's actually more of the D&D trope that running through a dungeon and clearing room-by-room that is the drag. Playing 4E with the expectation that your player-characters move on a grid, roll a d20 Perception check on every tile, kill every monster, will obviously result in a bogged-down experience.I'd definitely admit that I'd like to have seen 4E do a better job of trying to communicate and structure more narrative play -- But you can do a lot of cool things if you correctly structure & encourage players.Looking at something like "Skill Challenges" -- These should have probably been more appropriately called, "Scene Challenges" to try to encourage players to think about them as specific scenes where things happen. Although my regular group isn't a huge fan of FATE as a game unto itself, some FATE / other narrative-focused mechanics could be really well used in something like this.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Create a scene: "Your adventuring party opens the doors to the ancient crypt..."</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Ask players: "Your party is now exploring the crypts. If you successfully progress this scene, you will progress your <Quest>. Tell me some challenges you encounter in the scene, and how you attempt to overcome them."</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Wizard: "As we delve into the crypt, I notice some ancient writings on the wall. I want to roll <Lore> to see if I can decipher them."</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Fighter: "A giant venomous spider attacks us! I want to light a torch and drive it back! I'll roll <Intimidate> to see if I can drive it back into the shadows."</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">etc.</li> </ul>One of the problems my group always had with "Skill Challenges" as presented in 4E books and 4E adventures is that they are usually presented as pass/fail obstacles. "There is a giant rock in the way of the plot. Tell me how you move it with 15 different skills."Players didn't generally have narrative control, but giving them some narrative control is actually essential to getting players engaged.Meanwhile, to the point of this thread, you can use a scene challenge to present aspects of adventuring (trap encounters, fights with 3 goblins and an orc, puzzles, dialogues, etc) without breaking into high-resolution turn-by-turn 4E combat. The 4E combat system is something that is more for climactic fights where there are meaningful stakes. If a fight is just, "You open the door to Room 27-B," then concluding the fight with just one, or a couple, of dice rolls is entirely appropriate and fine.</blockquote>

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