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<blockquote data-quote="mneme" data-source="post: 5511656" data-attributes="member: 59248">Minions that explode can be a lot of fun, but Thatwackyned's post crossed the &quot;grudge monster&quot; line for me (in a different way than the Giant Frogs comment).Partially, that's because it's not a good enough answer to the actual problem to be worth making up monsters (if he'd suggested specific by the book monsters or a reasonable situation that like my &quot;lone defender&quot; encounter seed, tried to deal with the whole issue, it wouldn't have triggered like that for me).Part, I think, is that it's not really answering the question at all.&nbsp; The issue isn't functionally &quot;how do I make monsters big and powerful enough to threaten this annoying warden&quot;, (because, as another poster said, that's easy.&nbsp; You can always make bigger monsters--but that's not the point) but &quot;how do I make sure the untouchable warden has a challenging and interesting game without killing the squishier party members&quot;.&nbsp; Admittedly, exploding minions -can- do that if the warden steps up and absorbs the damage while the rest of the party sits back at a safe distance -- but if they don't, enough damage to annoy the warden will likely start killing his friends (really, exploding minions are a controller/ranged striker problem best solved by teleporting the minons away as part of/right before killing them; the warden absorbing their blows with his mighty hit points is a weaker, lamer way of dealing with the issue).&nbsp; To threaten a warden, you need to either throw out big enough monsters to scare him (probably mostly single target, so they don't risk hurting the rest of the group until they've gone through the warden; at least unless he ignores them entirely) or threaten his role, rather than his person (which as claimed, is a problem--though see my previous post for why I'm not sure it's that cut and dry).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="mneme, post: 5511656, member: 59248"] Minions that explode can be a lot of fun, but Thatwackyned's post crossed the "grudge monster" line for me (in a different way than the Giant Frogs comment). Partially, that's because it's not a good enough answer to the actual problem to be worth making up monsters (if he'd suggested specific by the book monsters or a reasonable situation that like my "lone defender" encounter seed, tried to deal with the whole issue, it wouldn't have triggered like that for me). Part, I think, is that it's not really answering the question at all. The issue isn't functionally "how do I make monsters big and powerful enough to threaten this annoying warden", (because, as another poster said, that's easy. You can always make bigger monsters--but that's not the point) but "how do I make sure the untouchable warden has a challenging and interesting game without killing the squishier party members". Admittedly, exploding minions -can- do that if the warden steps up and absorbs the damage while the rest of the party sits back at a safe distance -- but if they don't, enough damage to annoy the warden will likely start killing his friends (really, exploding minions are a controller/ranged striker problem best solved by teleporting the minons away as part of/right before killing them; the warden absorbing their blows with his mighty hit points is a weaker, lamer way of dealing with the issue). To threaten a warden, you need to either throw out big enough monsters to scare him (probably mostly single target, so they don't risk hurting the rest of the group until they've gone through the warden; at least unless he ignores them entirely) or threaten his role, rather than his person (which as claimed, is a problem--though see my previous post for why I'm not sure it's that cut and dry). [/QUOTE]

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