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<blockquote data-quote="CharlesRyan" data-source="post: 5354834" data-attributes="member: 5265">Actually, it's like whining when the protagonist in the movie you're watching gets beaten up or captured by the bad guys or has his first plan foiled.If these things didn't happen, the movie would be really boring. And short.As Rel said, setbacks are what make the game interesting.It sounds to me like maybe this guy's problem isn't really with the rules--it's with the victory conditions. As in, he has a mindset that he's trying to &quot;win&quot; the game, so when he suffers a setback--especially a setback that is related to perceived vagueness in the rules--he feels screwed. That's normal--we all feel screwed when we lose a game because of a rule that was vague or poorly explained.I bet the guy does NOT whine when he loses a piece in checkers--because that loss seems fair. He probably doesn't whine while losing MtG, either. There's no perceived unfairness when the rules are clear from the outset.Even when playing strictly RAW, RPGs are based on subjective calls and the GM's desire to create challenge. They are inherently unfair, but that's OK, because they aren't about winning. This may be the point that the player needs to come to.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="CharlesRyan, post: 5354834, member: 5265"] Actually, it's like whining when the protagonist in the movie you're watching gets beaten up or captured by the bad guys or has his first plan foiled. If these things didn't happen, the movie would be really boring. And short. As Rel said, setbacks are what make the game interesting. It sounds to me like maybe this guy's problem isn't really with the rules--it's with the victory conditions. As in, he has a mindset that he's trying to "win" the game, so when he suffers a setback--especially a setback that is related to perceived vagueness in the rules--he feels screwed. That's normal--we all feel screwed when we lose a game because of a rule that was vague or poorly explained. I bet the guy does NOT whine when he loses a piece in checkers--because that loss seems fair. He probably doesn't whine while losing MtG, either. There's no perceived unfairness when the rules are clear from the outset. Even when playing strictly RAW, RPGs are based on subjective calls and the GM's desire to create challenge. They are inherently unfair, but that's OK, because they aren't about winning. This may be the point that the player needs to come to. [/QUOTE]

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