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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Oryan77" data-source="post: 5355068" data-attributes="member: 18701">Ok fine, Chinese Checkers then. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />  But this doesn't give him an excuse to be a whiner. If he was my friend, rather than explain things to him in game terms, I would be explaining it to him in real world terms because that is how I approach D&D. Maybe in real life, he doesn't know what warm water can do to a cold glass. And if he goes and pours hot water on his frozen windshield and the glass cracks, well, lesson learned. Obviously he didn't "think" about what might happen.Same thing with D&D. If he didn't protect his potions from getting damaged, then he didn't "think" about what might happen to them. Lesson learned. It's the same thing as far as I'm concerned. Now if they are the type of players that approach D&D as "just a game" and don't care about real world logic, then the DM shouldn't be doing things like destroying potions (they don't get destroyed in my video games). If a player can't handle the DM being a little loose with the game world without whining about it, then he shouldn't play in that group. He may need a more strict & streamlined type of D&D game that doesn't focus much on being a working world.Yep, trust is the most important thing in order to have a great group of players. The hard part is getting players to understand what being "screwed over" actually means. This thread shows that everyone has their own idea on what it means to get screwed. Some people think getting screwed over means losing a couple of potions. Other people will say getting screwed over means they failed a saving throw and are stunned. Some people will say you aren't screwed unless it is something major that will cause you lots of game time to overcome. And then some will say you only get screwed when the DM has a personal agenda against you and he cheats to cause you problems.I never make mistakes in checkers & I do get my pieces back! When I lose a piece, it is done on purpose. You'll realize that when my other piece makes it across the board and gets kinged. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />Unfortunately, a lot of players don't see it that way. Are there even cursed magic items in 4e?I don't tend to play with those type of players because that mindset kinda bugs me. Plus, players that can't find "challenges" like that interesting usually keep the game pretty boring and vanilla. Gearing up, going to the dungeon, and killing the big monster is fun and all. But I can get that from a video game. I play D&D because it is so open ended. I prefer when the adventure is spiced up while I'm going to the cave to kill the monster. And if that means I have to be inconvenienced for a bit, bring it on. I'm a big boy, I can handle it.A short story here; I can't handle it though if the DM keeps me from getting unscrewed. I had a DM unfairly allow a PC to steal 2 magic items from me. Then when I investigated and set up this elaborate trap for the PC to determine if he did take them and what he did with them (a year later), it surprised the DM and that player. They never saw it coming. Yet, just as I announced that I coup-de-grace him, the DM lamely had this powerful evil sorcerer bossman appear and threatened to kill me if I took that PCs life. I got screwed once by losing my only 2 magic items, but it was actually fun for me trying to get my revenge so I didn't mind. Then when I thought I was about to get my revenge (it felt great), I was screwed even worse. That wasn't cool. 14 years later and I'm still bitter about it! <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/laugh.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing    :lol:" data-shortname=":lol:" /> That was in our old 2e Dark Sun game, and now that DM (he's my best friend) wants to start a 4e Dark Sun game for us. I should remind him about that, it'll give us a good laugh.That's an important thing for DMs to keep in mind. For every time a DM "screws" over a character, it really helps that the DM also throws in the fluffy towel just as often.So if the DM destroys 2 of the PCs potions, maybe he could reward him later with an even better potion.Yeah, I relate it to real life. Although strangely, I'm actually trying to win real life. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />When an 11 y/o girl comes up to me and knocks my Rocky Road ice cream out of my hand and then steps on it, I got screwed. But life is unfair like that. I approach D&D the same exact way. I can't sit there and control every aspect of the game world. So I'm not going to say it's "unfair" that my potions were destroyed. Of course there are exceptions, like DMs that have to cheat to screw you over, and they only screw you over for out of game reasons. But normally, if my PC lost a fight, got captured, and lost all of his gear, oh well, that's life. I'm not going to whine about it (although I might kick the DM in his junk just as he steps into his car).</blockquote>

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