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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Doctor DM" data-source="post: 5391141" data-attributes="member: 49937">Alright this is gonna be another long post, but here's my final plan:I AM going to wait until next time we play to handle this.The other day I ran into our other newbie player for a couple seconds, the guy who is the problem players friend. He's a cool guy. Great player too, although new, and also isn't exactly an expert on the rules. Anyway, the guy says we gotta talk to our DM about the game being so hard, because Problem Player can't take how hard it is, and that he too actually thinks it's a little hard at times. Other New Player also said not to get him wrong, he's having a great time and loves playing, but he thinks it's a little too tough sometimes too. We were both on the run and couldn't talk much, but I said ok, I hear you. I'll explain some stuff to you later, but I hear you.So basically I think Problem Player has kind of brainwashed this player into thinking it's too hard. Like I said Problem Player has "us vs. the DM" issues and thinks the DM is out to get us. I think he kind of thinks the DM is making things up and not following the rules, and it's unfairly too hard. I believe he thinks this because it's not traditional D&D, it's western steampunk running about 75% 3.5 rules and 25% homebrew. He's muttered stuff before about "opponents not being appropiate for our level". So his issue is mostly a mix of not understanding CR in D&D, but also he just seems to think everyone we fight, including boss villians who are ment to take on the whole party should have similar stats and abilities to him. I don't think he understands our opponents are meant to fight a party of FOUR characters, not just one, that's why he thinks they're overpowered when they're better then him one on one.So I'm actually super happy that Other New Player thinks that it's a hard game, because now the DM and I can give a little lesson on how hard things are in D&D, and not seem like we're picking on problem player. The DM and I plan on asking the group, especially Problem Player, what exactly they think has been unfair or too hard. After we hear their complaints, here's the RPG lesson:You guys haven't played a long term D&D campaign before, you guys don't know what hard is. It may seem tough, but it's really not. We've been playing for 8+ years, so we're going to show you what you see in D&D.This game is NOT that hard. On a scale of 1 to 10, it's probably a 6. We've had one tough encounter that was like an 8 and a 1/2, but that's about it. The DM has done a good job of mixing mostly right on par with our level challenges, some tougher ones, and some easy ones as well. Very good mix actually, he's got to be just about spot on with the DMG's recomendation for X% of easy fights, X% of hard fights, ect. We'll address their issues of what they think was too hard. High AC of the clown was offset by extremly low HP, and is really not that high. The Clown was a 24. We are all 20's or 21's. Problem Player has a shield he can activate to get to 23 AC. The Clowns was a massive ONE POINT higher than his. And once again, there are four of us, and one enemy here.Setting off the trap: Problem player has said "I guess we have to declare EVERY SINGLE tiny detail we do." Well no you don't, but searching for a trap IS something you need to actively announce. It's a freakin TRAP. It's supposed to be hidden, it's supposed to surprise you. And technically you're not even supposed to be able to find them unless you have the trapfinding class ability, which you don't, but the DM lets us all search anyway. AND because you are new, despite what you think the DM actually cut you a huge break. There were tripwires like every 15 ft in that warehouse, but the DM was being VERY nice and let you avoid them because you're a noob. But he drew the line when you charged up the stairs without checking.Problem Player has also mentioned a few times how it was CRAZYNESS that several members of our party (one at a time, not as a group) were out-grappled by a werewolf. Well it's a freakin werewolf. Unarmed close combat is kind of their thing. It's a giant, hulked out, savage beast. You're a regular man who focuses on ranged combat. You really think you should have an easy time wrestling this thing? It doesn't work that way. But hey, I bet you're a hell of a lot better at shooting than the werewolf is. Everyone has strengths and weaknesses. And any other supposedly "unfair" things are pretty easily explained as you can see.I'm also going to show them some OFFICIAL Wizards of the Coast monsters, that have an appropriate challenge rating for our level.I just randomly grabbed the MM2 and opend it to the "C"s and got some good ones. We're 5th level, so I picked the Chain Golem, Clockwork Horror (Gold), both CR5, the Catoblepas CR6, and a Dire Horse CR4.I didn't put any effort into finding hard monsters or anything, but these are waaaaaay tougher then most of what we've been facing. High AC's, high damage, and crazy ablities like save or die and sunder. According to the people who make this game, these are average challenges for us. We should be able to take four a day. If they want to we can run some mock combats against these. If you want to see some real tough DMing we can fight them in some fun scenarios too, how about taking on that Chain Golem in a small, pitch black room?I'd also like to point out all the extra bonuses and advantages our characters get, and the DM will share a couple behind the screen breaks he's given the new players.I feel that should adequately illustrate that this is not an unfair, too hard game. The DM is not our opponent, he's a storyteller. He can "beat us" at any time if he wants to, but he doesn't. He actually has our backs, and the only thing he's trying to do to us is make sure we have fun. D&D was designed to be challenging, we're playing it the way it's supposed to be played. Do you not like overcoming challenges? Should the whole game just be a cake walk? I know I don't want to play a game like that.I really think that should clear up the problem. However I'm still going to let problem player know that even if he didn't know what was going on, still his reactions have been inapropriate, and they're making the rest of the group uncomfortable. If he has issues about the game we can talk about it and work it out, but don't be angry and beligarant about it, because it WILL kill this game that we all love. We want to have a good time, and we want YOU to have a good time. Now let's hunt some orc!So that's that. We're not going to be douches about it, but we are going to be very matter of fact, and stern.Any advice about this spiel? Anything we should add, or leave out?If this doesn't work, he's hopeless.</blockquote>

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