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<blockquote data-quote="WizarDru" data-source="post: 5930481" data-attributes="member: 151"><p>A couple of thoughts.</p><p></p><p>First, let's quote the actual "Caves of Chaos" module write-up:</p><p></p><p></p><p>Emphasis mine. There is also nearly a page and a half of details on what to do if the party gets in over their head through no fault of their own. I'm not really sure why your DM was so certain that cave 'A' was the easiest cave. The goblin cave is the same difficulty, perhaps easier. The Ogre cave would have been dangerous (though entirely doable, as my group beat him after fighting four groups of goblins).</p><p></p><p>Either way, the module is VERY CLEAR that this module is more like Temple of Elemental Evil than Keep on the Shadowfell.</p><p></p><p>The module also details about three to four pages of variations and changes the DM <em><strong>could</strong></em> make if he wanted to, to retool the character of the module, the nature of the caves or the reasons for the players being there. In my case, the players were there to rescue a kidnapped noble.</p><p></p><p>As far as the players being unable to speak to the groups there...some of them, that's true. But the hobgoblins, bugbears, cultists and others speak common unambiguously in the module (even posting signs in common). Nowhere does it say these particular goblins and kobolds do not, though by the bestiary, there is no mention. Of course, both clerics have the Diplomacy skill, which should allow for some form of negotiation, regardless of a common tongue. It's clear several tribes here interact, regardless of shared language....there's no reason the players couldn't do so. Given that the Ogre doesn't have multiple languages listed, he clearly has worked out deals without a shared tongue OR he and the goblins speak common, at the least. </p><p></p><p>The module may or may not have faults, but the layout and interactions do not appear to be things I would list among them. These were design intents, pure and simple. It sound more to me like the OP's DM didn't read the module fully or didn't make his party aware of the threat they faced.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="WizarDru, post: 5930481, member: 151"] A couple of thoughts. First, let's quote the actual "Caves of Chaos" module write-up: Emphasis mine. There is also nearly a page and a half of details on what to do if the party gets in over their head through no fault of their own. I'm not really sure why your DM was so certain that cave 'A' was the easiest cave. The goblin cave is the same difficulty, perhaps easier. The Ogre cave would have been dangerous (though entirely doable, as my group beat him after fighting four groups of goblins). Either way, the module is VERY CLEAR that this module is more like Temple of Elemental Evil than Keep on the Shadowfell. The module also details about three to four pages of variations and changes the DM [i][b]could[/b][/i][b][/b] make if he wanted to, to retool the character of the module, the nature of the caves or the reasons for the players being there. In my case, the players were there to rescue a kidnapped noble. As far as the players being unable to speak to the groups there...some of them, that's true. But the hobgoblins, bugbears, cultists and others speak common unambiguously in the module (even posting signs in common). Nowhere does it say these particular goblins and kobolds do not, though by the bestiary, there is no mention. Of course, both clerics have the Diplomacy skill, which should allow for some form of negotiation, regardless of a common tongue. It's clear several tribes here interact, regardless of shared language....there's no reason the players couldn't do so. Given that the Ogre doesn't have multiple languages listed, he clearly has worked out deals without a shared tongue OR he and the goblins speak common, at the least. The module may or may not have faults, but the layout and interactions do not appear to be things I would list among them. These were design intents, pure and simple. It sound more to me like the OP's DM didn't read the module fully or didn't make his party aware of the threat they faced. [/QUOTE]
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