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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 8239105" data-attributes="member: 6790260">The only kinds of badwrongfun are:<ol>
<li data-xf-list-type="ol">Exploitative, using the provided game in ways that defy the intent at that specific table,</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ol">Coercive, deriving from pushing the other participants (even peripheral ones) into situations they aren't comfortable with,</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ol">Insulting, taking joy from belittling, shaming, or demeaning other people or players.</li>
</ol>There is no such thing as badwrongfun that isn't at least one of these things. As long as everyone is a positive, willing, and engaged participant, it is not possible to have badwrongfun.System should never matter for asking if every participant is positive, willing, and engaged. Even &quot;adult&quot;-oriented games (like White Wolf stuff, or Monsterhearts), the system is not and cannot be the cause of any player being insulting, coercive, or exploitative. There can, of course, be elements or even whole games that are written containing insulting stuff, but making a group play a system written like that is at the very least coercive.A much more interesting--not to mention productive--line of questioning is to ask whether a&nbsp; particular game succeeds at the goals for which it was designed. But such systematic talk doesn't sit too well with an awful lot of gamers, and isn't nearly as evocative and identity-staking as &quot;X isn't D&amp;D&quot; or &quot;you can't RP with Y&quot; or &quot;dey terk our <s>JERBS</s> ALINEMINTS!!&quot;</blockquote>

[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 8239105, member: 6790260"] The only kinds of badwrongfun are: [LIST=1] [*]Exploitative, using the provided game in ways that defy the intent at that specific table, [*]Coercive, deriving from pushing the other participants (even peripheral ones) into situations they aren't comfortable with, [*]Insulting, taking joy from belittling, shaming, or demeaning other people or players. [/LIST] There is no such thing as badwrongfun that isn't at least one of these things. As long as everyone is a positive, willing, and engaged participant, it is not possible to have badwrongfun. System should never matter for asking if every participant is positive, willing, and engaged. Even "adult"-oriented games (like White Wolf stuff, or [I]Monsterhearts[/I]), the [I]system[/I] is not and cannot be the cause of any player being insulting, coercive, or exploitative. There can, of course, be elements or even whole games that are written [I]containing[/I] insulting stuff, but [I]making[/I] a group play a system written like that is at the very least coercive. A much more interesting--not to mention [I]productive[/I]--line of questioning is to ask whether a particular game succeeds at the goals for which it was designed. But such systematic talk doesn't sit too well with an awful lot of gamers, and isn't nearly as evocative and identity-staking as "X isn't D&D" or "you can't RP with Y" or "dey terk our [S]JERBS[/S] [I]ALINEMINTS!![/I]" [/QUOTE]

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