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<blockquote data-quote="Tinner" data-source="post: 1891261" data-attributes="member: 19667">Stop using MonstersDitch the whole dungeon concept. Put them in a city adventure, where all their opposition is core races with class levels.They don't want Orcs with Class Levels? Fine, they can fight some Half-Orc Barbarians instead. Goblins have to all be the same? OK, how about a party of Halfling Rogues?Or you could just have all the Orcs under a variety of magical effects. Bull's Strength, Mage Armor, Bless, Enlarge etc. can all buff your Orcs into more of a challenge.There's always the Hordes of Humanoids tactic too. Since all your Orcs and Goblins have to be little weenies, just bury the PC's under them. Sure Orcs are just 1/4 CR, but when there are a few hundred of them and they are armed with seige weapons, and enslaved war animals, they can become a challenge for higher level PC's.Another tactic that works well is just making every Orc EXACTLY the same. They use the same weapons, they make the same attacks, each dungeon is just a neverending hallway of 10x10 rooms with orcs in it. The sheer monotony should help you convince them that a little variety might be in order.They'll either get bored and demand a change, in which case, you reply with &quot;Well, I do have this other dungeon, but the orcs have class levels and you guys probably can't handle that ...&quot; or they'll be thrilled to be chopping up so many orcs. In that case, you're GMing for idiots, and you probably should quit.They need to adapt or die IMO.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tinner, post: 1891261, member: 19667"] [b]Stop using Monsters[/b] Ditch the whole dungeon concept. Put them in a city adventure, where all their opposition is core races with class levels. They don't want Orcs with Class Levels? Fine, they can fight some Half-Orc Barbarians instead. Goblins have to all be the same? OK, how about a party of Halfling Rogues? Or you could just have all the Orcs under a variety of magical effects. Bull's Strength, Mage Armor, Bless, Enlarge etc. can all buff your Orcs into more of a challenge. There's always the Hordes of Humanoids tactic too. Since all your Orcs and Goblins have to be little weenies, just bury the PC's under them. Sure Orcs are just 1/4 CR, but when there are a few hundred of them and they are armed with seige weapons, and enslaved war animals, they can become a challenge for higher level PC's. Another tactic that works well is just making every Orc EXACTLY the same. They use the same weapons, they make the same attacks, each dungeon is just a neverending hallway of 10x10 rooms with orcs in it. The sheer monotony should help you convince them that a little variety might be in order. They'll either get bored and demand a change, in which case, you reply with "Well, I do have this other dungeon, but the orcs have class levels and you guys probably can't handle that ..." or they'll be thrilled to be chopping up so many orcs. In that case, you're GMing for idiots, and you probably should quit. They need to adapt or die IMO. [/QUOTE]

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