How tokien ruined modern fantasy

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Dragon-Slayer said:
Don't forget that Tolkien also read the works of (and from some accounts was influenced by) early twentieth century fantasists like Lord Dunsany, William Morris and Eric Rucker Eddison. Of these Dunsany (in my opinion) is the best for campaign inspired mayhem.

Just to do a slight hijack, since the original posters post deserves no response IMHO, but..Lord Dunsany is incredibly overlooked. The King of Elflands Daughter is a great dark fairy tale, and luckily its been reprinted because of the popularity of Tolkien and fantasy.

Now if the publishers would only reprint Moorcock and Leiber in new editions...
 

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who ever said tolkien created the best fantasy movies ever is wrong George Lucas made the best fantasy movies ever all six of them. And I know Gygax didn't "create" everything in D&D but Tolkien has made so many people so narrow minded they just term people lkike me who have a different veiw a troll and dragonlance didn't scerw over gnomes canundrum was cool
 

Gygax can claim what he wants, but the whole idea of elves/dwarves/halflings being actual people instead of mystical mysterious demi-god types comes from Tolkien.

No, you can find examples of elves and dwarves as folks like us in a lot of European folklore. They may be different, but "Markeson, you were right! People are the same, everywhere!"

Warlord, some points:

1) Use proper punctuation. It will make your posts easier to read and definitely seem less "trollish." Then, perhaps, you will get a little respect and fewer insults.

2) Tolkien made no movies. Movies were made from his work by Bass, Rankin, and Jackson, all after his death in 1973.

3) The Star Wars series contains as many lifts and borrowed elements as any other piece of fiction. The original movie Star Wars, while good, was based on an old B&W samurai film (I'm a little rusty, but it may have been Seven Samurai). Phantom Menace, which truly sucked, was full of elements you could have picked up from watching the Discovery channel for a month in 2002-2003 (before they changed to their current format of people building hotrods & motorcycles-not that there's anything wrong with that). Think I'm kidding? Check out Star Wars Origins (BTW: the site also does a great job revealing the influences on Tolkien's LOTR-including where he got ents and hobbits from, as well as other great sci-fi/fantasy works.)

Furthermore, the Star Wars movies are most accurately described as "Space Opera," a subset of Sci-Fi, not Fantasy.

4) You can't blame Tolkien for the way people have flocked to his work. It was groundbreaking. That people really love his stuff is understandible. But you can't say that he made people narrowminded just because he raised the bar a little. Narowminded they may be, but they brought that to the table themselves.
 
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Dannyalcatraz said:
The original movie Star Wars, while good, was based on an old B&W samurai film (I'm a little rusty, but it may have been Seven Samurai)

Hidden Fortress, actually, but most of Kirosawa's films influenced it in some way.

...I won't get involved in the topic at hand, though.
 
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I was going to reply to this thread when it got started, but I figured it'd be best if it just dropped off the face of the earth. As this hasn't happened, and people have pretty much said all that I was going to say, I have only one comment: give Warlord a break.

EDIT: I realized what I said probably won't be taken in the spirit it was meant. I don't mean to say that you are stupid or a fool for not liking Tolkien, even though that's what I literally said. I disagree with most of your points, and if you read the Silmarillion and the mythoi Middle-Earth is in large part based on I think that you'll come to see the viewpoint of the Tolkien-o-philes like myself.

As a sidenote, doesn't it suck when people dismiss you because of your age? I'm only 17 myself, and have occasionally hidden my age online so people don't ignore my opinions.
 
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I highly recommend to verify Warlord's IP and compare it to those recorded on ENW and NL.

If he's NOT a troll...

I realize that most of your points don't really make sense and I find your attempts to provoke a reaction from us for example by calling us fanboys very insulting and feeble and I suggest that you cease doing that if you intend to spend any time at all on ENworld another thing people will think less that you're a troll if you punctuate your posts properly.
 

Warlord, please punctuate your posts. I know it's easier and faster to type without worrying about commas and periods, semi-colons and the like, but my tired old eyes need those breaks. (*sigh* I'm only 25 and already I have tired old eyes.)
 


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