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How viable is 5E to play at high levels?
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<blockquote data-quote="Jester David" data-source="post: 7208174" data-attributes="member: 37579"><p>It's certainly possible. The streaming web series <em>Critical Role</em> started with the party at around level 14 or 15 and now everyone is 18 or 19th level, and there are still challenging fights. </p><p></p><p>At high levels (10+) the encounter building and CR rules become guidelines, and at epic levels (15+) they cease to be guidelines and are more vague suggestions. (Y'know, pretty much like in 4e and 3e...)</p><p>You need to build encounters based on your groups individual strengths and weaknesses, and focus on either lots of small encounters with limits preventing rests or high damage legendary monsters. Also, you should probably just throw the expected hit points out the window and dramatically increase hp for all foes. </p><p>You probably also need to design more creatures or look for sources beyond the <em>Monster Manual</em>. The <em>Tomb of Beasts</em> by Kobold Press is a good start, and there's probably some higher level foes on the DMsGuild.</p><p></p><p>The catch is, you can't be beholden to the text in the rulebook. There is a hard choice between following the text in the books and providing a challenge for the players. </p><p>The rules set the bar for challenge low. Because they only had so much time to playtest, and running through a full 1-15+ campaign to accurately test the power levels of characters wasn't an option (given that takes months). Even if you have identical characters, there's a huge difference in effective power level between a player who has played a character for 15 levels and one who is using a pregen. Experience and knowing the best tactical choices make a <em>huge</em> difference. Ditto with a group that has been playing the same characters for 5 or 10 levels and knows how to synergize or work together. Teamwork simply cannot be accounted for in the rulebook. </p><p></p><p>Break out some monsters that are probably higher CR than they *should* be. Switch to milestone levels. Have more deadly encounters. </p><p>Don't be afraid to use terrain. Rooms full of poison gas or rivers of lava. Necromantic altars that radiant death. Psionic crystals that empower enemies. Etc. Enemies should not be afraid to target fallen PCs in AoE spells or even attack them outright. </p><p></p><p>-edit-</p><p>Despite the monster math being a little on the easy side for high levels, 5e is actually pretty solid for high level play. Because of the "small hand size" to use a card game term. Even high level characters can't do ridiculous numbers of things each round, being limited in their highest level abilities. Even at high levels, combats can go fairly quickly and turns pass by fast. </p><p>It's certainly the most playable edition for high level games.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jester David, post: 7208174, member: 37579"] It's certainly possible. The streaming web series [I]Critical Role[/I] started with the party at around level 14 or 15 and now everyone is 18 or 19th level, and there are still challenging fights. At high levels (10+) the encounter building and CR rules become guidelines, and at epic levels (15+) they cease to be guidelines and are more vague suggestions. (Y'know, pretty much like in 4e and 3e...) You need to build encounters based on your groups individual strengths and weaknesses, and focus on either lots of small encounters with limits preventing rests or high damage legendary monsters. Also, you should probably just throw the expected hit points out the window and dramatically increase hp for all foes. You probably also need to design more creatures or look for sources beyond the [I]Monster Manual[/I]. The [I]Tomb of Beasts[/I] by Kobold Press is a good start, and there's probably some higher level foes on the DMsGuild. The catch is, you can't be beholden to the text in the rulebook. There is a hard choice between following the text in the books and providing a challenge for the players. The rules set the bar for challenge low. Because they only had so much time to playtest, and running through a full 1-15+ campaign to accurately test the power levels of characters wasn't an option (given that takes months). Even if you have identical characters, there's a huge difference in effective power level between a player who has played a character for 15 levels and one who is using a pregen. Experience and knowing the best tactical choices make a [I]huge[/I] difference. Ditto with a group that has been playing the same characters for 5 or 10 levels and knows how to synergize or work together. Teamwork simply cannot be accounted for in the rulebook. Break out some monsters that are probably higher CR than they *should* be. Switch to milestone levels. Have more deadly encounters. Don't be afraid to use terrain. Rooms full of poison gas or rivers of lava. Necromantic altars that radiant death. Psionic crystals that empower enemies. Etc. Enemies should not be afraid to target fallen PCs in AoE spells or even attack them outright. -edit- Despite the monster math being a little on the easy side for high levels, 5e is actually pretty solid for high level play. Because of the "small hand size" to use a card game term. Even high level characters can't do ridiculous numbers of things each round, being limited in their highest level abilities. Even at high levels, combats can go fairly quickly and turns pass by fast. It's certainly the most playable edition for high level games. [/QUOTE]
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