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How viable is 5E to play at high levels?
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<blockquote data-quote="Helldritch" data-source="post: 7212010" data-attributes="member: 6855114"><p>Yep. Now that you bring that up... RPG are based on fantasy. Generals in fantasy can be either with guards or not. So leave the "not real life" where it stands. You're better than that crappy type argumentation.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yep, that is what we call a legendary monster in lair. Such as Beholders, Vampires, Dragons, Demon Princes and such. A marilith is not part of these. You can make it as such if you are willing to modify her. Nothing prevents you from doing that.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>As the above. We already have some of these. Nothing prevents you from creating some of your own.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The encounter I have shown you was used in a real encounter. The players, all 15th level and 6 players strong with 2 henchmen of 13th level had to break through quite a few demons and when they finaly got to the marilith they almost died. It had been quite a long fight (12 rounds if I remember correctly). They were quite impressed with how the marilith was teleporting in and out. One player mentionned he did not believe that a marilith could be that strong. And yet, I used her as written in the MM (she could summon though...).</p><p></p><p>You have to forget what the marilith was in 2ed, 3ed and 4th. Think of her as she was in 1ed. You could kill these by the score!</p><p>You are trapped in what earlier editions have done. 5ed is its own edition. It works if you make it work and if you take time to make it work. It is a much better edition than what has gone before in some aspects, worst in other. It is not perfect. No edition and surely no game will ever be. I played enough RPG to know that a lot of work will be need to make them work at all levels. Some will require more work than others. </p><p></p><p>From what I am starting to understand, unless I am mistaken, you would like 5ed to be like 4e with clear boss, brute, skirmishers and controlers. 5e isn't build like that. You must realize this or you will end up not playing this edition the way it is supposed to be played. That is to provide fun for you and your friends. You pester so much about it that you simply don't see the good things that this edition has to offer. You are stuck in a time loop where the only thing you see are what you perceive as flaws in the edition. Not everything is perfect far from it. It does require more work than 4e (which I really liked by the way.) but at the same time, it has a special something that brings back what was good in the AD&D. A fluidity that the tactical editions (3e and 4e) lacked. Start playing the edition to have fun. Follow the guidelines where it suits you. Modify where you want to see something more to your tastes. </p><p></p><p>I have no problems to challenge my players at any levels and I have my share of optimizers and powergamers. I do use the advice I gave in earlier posts. I did that in all editions and all RPG I have been a DM in. The pieces of advice I gave work. Try them out. You will see a big change in how your games run.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Helldritch, post: 7212010, member: 6855114"] Yep. Now that you bring that up... RPG are based on fantasy. Generals in fantasy can be either with guards or not. So leave the "not real life" where it stands. You're better than that crappy type argumentation. Yep, that is what we call a legendary monster in lair. Such as Beholders, Vampires, Dragons, Demon Princes and such. A marilith is not part of these. You can make it as such if you are willing to modify her. Nothing prevents you from doing that. As the above. We already have some of these. Nothing prevents you from creating some of your own. The encounter I have shown you was used in a real encounter. The players, all 15th level and 6 players strong with 2 henchmen of 13th level had to break through quite a few demons and when they finaly got to the marilith they almost died. It had been quite a long fight (12 rounds if I remember correctly). They were quite impressed with how the marilith was teleporting in and out. One player mentionned he did not believe that a marilith could be that strong. And yet, I used her as written in the MM (she could summon though...). You have to forget what the marilith was in 2ed, 3ed and 4th. Think of her as she was in 1ed. You could kill these by the score! You are trapped in what earlier editions have done. 5ed is its own edition. It works if you make it work and if you take time to make it work. It is a much better edition than what has gone before in some aspects, worst in other. It is not perfect. No edition and surely no game will ever be. I played enough RPG to know that a lot of work will be need to make them work at all levels. Some will require more work than others. From what I am starting to understand, unless I am mistaken, you would like 5ed to be like 4e with clear boss, brute, skirmishers and controlers. 5e isn't build like that. You must realize this or you will end up not playing this edition the way it is supposed to be played. That is to provide fun for you and your friends. You pester so much about it that you simply don't see the good things that this edition has to offer. You are stuck in a time loop where the only thing you see are what you perceive as flaws in the edition. Not everything is perfect far from it. It does require more work than 4e (which I really liked by the way.) but at the same time, it has a special something that brings back what was good in the AD&D. A fluidity that the tactical editions (3e and 4e) lacked. Start playing the edition to have fun. Follow the guidelines where it suits you. Modify where you want to see something more to your tastes. I have no problems to challenge my players at any levels and I have my share of optimizers and powergamers. I do use the advice I gave in earlier posts. I did that in all editions and all RPG I have been a DM in. The pieces of advice I gave work. Try them out. You will see a big change in how your games run. [/QUOTE]
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