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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7212133" data-attributes="member: 996">Any specific instance needn't be the case, sure.  But neither does pointing out that some encounters may be harder than CR indicates rather than weaker mean that design of the monster or the CR system (or the encounter, by the DM!) can't be deemed 'poor.'  That's all. Obviously.  A 'good' design would moderate that variance enough to make CR a useful yardstick for the DM who wants such a yardstick. Nope, no specific details, just a generic 'ceteris parabus' kind of comparison.  If CR X results in wildly difficult degrees of challenge, then CR's not a very useful metric, thus design of CR (or design of the monsters it rates) might reasonably be deemed 'poor.'  Or, a specific DM noting such might be blamed, personally.  :shrug: They were at least with the same DM, an experienced one. 's all relative. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> Dependability that can't readily be gauged certainly can't be very dependable!  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />  I don't see how anyone could think that.  You'd have to at least posit the same DM with the same players & characters to even start isolating CR as the culprit. Doesn't really contrast with the former extreme, you could recognize it as a rule of thumb, and still expect it to be equally useful to everyone, or you could think of it as an exact formula and expect it to need to be adjusted heavily for the needs of a given table. Which also says something about how useful a guideline it is. ;( I'm afraid a few things in D&D are traditionally viewed and even actually used that way (as 'for beginners' or the like), when they may actually be rather poor for the purpose.   Apprentice Tier and 'simple' fighters as well as CR. Definitely.  I suspect leaving things out entirely is more damning than intentionally making them garbage, which is more damning than just doing a half-assed job.  So including CR, even if it's of questionable value, was the right call.</blockquote>

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