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<blockquote data-quote="Sacrosanct" data-source="post: 7214337" data-attributes="member: 15700">I don't think I agree with this.&nbsp; Obviously our own experiences vary, but 1e was my preferred edition that we played from 1981 when I started all the way up to 2012.&nbsp; What you're claiming doesn't seem to be accurate to my experiences at all.&nbsp; About the only thing I agree with is that 9th level is considered &quot;high level&quot;.&nbsp; But it still is very much viable above 10th level.&nbsp; The D series and Q module are all very deadly to PCs level 10-14.For example, a 10th level PC still failed saving throws half the time or more.&nbsp; Extremely critical when you remember AD&amp;D had save or die effects.&nbsp; A 15th level magic user for example needs an 11 or higher to make a poison save.&nbsp; How many things in 1e had poison?&nbsp; A lot.&nbsp; Every freaking where.&nbsp; And if you failed it was none of the mamby-pamby take a bit of damage and a penalty to your attacks.&nbsp; It was death.&nbsp; Instant.Hit points were much lower as well.&nbsp; A 10th level fighter with a 16 CON is only going to have 70 or so hit points.&nbsp; A failed save against a 10 HD old or ancient dragon kills him instantly.&nbsp; It gets even more lethal at levels above 9 because you no longer roll for HP or get your CON bonus.&nbsp; A 15th level MU is only going to have around 30 hp.&nbsp; Even if he or he makes their save against dragon breath, it's death.1e also had level draining monsters, and several at higher levels.And 1e higher level monsters had very high magic resistance.&nbsp; So yeah, I have to disagree with your position that high level AD&amp;D was not viable, and especially disagree with your claim that by 10-12th level a competent party of players could handily defeat any published monster.&nbsp; I can't see how that is remotely possible unless you're playing a completely different game with different books than what I have.&nbsp; I'm not even talking about demon lords, I'm talking about &quot;regular&quot; monsters like a Balor, Vampire, dragon, chimera, beholder, t rex, ghost, banshee, giants, etc, etc.&nbsp; Even the lowly rot grubs can be deadly to a high level party.&nbsp; 1e, at any level, you had to be careful.&nbsp; Really careful.&nbsp; In virtually all ways, 1e was much tougher than any other edition after it, even in the teen levels.Also, a marilith in 1e was 7+7 HD.&nbsp; That's not a CR8.&nbsp; That's about a CR4.&nbsp; CR =/= HD from older editions</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Sacrosanct, post: 7214337, member: 15700"] I don't think I agree with this. Obviously our own experiences vary, but 1e was my preferred edition that we played from 1981 when I started all the way up to 2012. What you're claiming doesn't seem to be accurate to my experiences at all. About the only thing I agree with is that 9th level is considered "high level". But it still is very much viable above 10th level. The D series and Q module are all very deadly to PCs level 10-14. For example, a 10th level PC still failed saving throws half the time or more. Extremely critical when you remember AD&D had save or die effects. A 15th level magic user for example needs an 11 or higher to make a poison save. How many things in 1e had poison? A lot. Every freaking where. And if you failed it was none of the mamby-pamby take a bit of damage and a penalty to your attacks. It was death. Instant. Hit points were much lower as well. A 10th level fighter with a 16 CON is only going to have 70 or so hit points. A failed save against a 10 HD old or ancient dragon kills him instantly. It gets even more lethal at levels above 9 because you no longer roll for HP or get your CON bonus. A 15th level MU is only going to have around 30 hp. Even if he or he makes their save against dragon breath, it's death. 1e also had level draining monsters, and several at higher levels. And 1e higher level monsters had very high magic resistance. So yeah, I have to disagree with your position that high level AD&D was not viable, and especially disagree with your claim that by 10-12th level a competent party of players could handily defeat any published monster. I can't see how that is remotely possible unless you're playing a completely different game with different books than what I have. I'm not even talking about demon lords, I'm talking about "regular" monsters like a Balor, Vampire, dragon, chimera, beholder, t rex, ghost, banshee, giants, etc, etc. Even the lowly [I]rot grubs [/I]can be deadly to a high level party. 1e, at [I]any[/I] level, you had to be careful. Really careful. In virtually all ways, 1e was much tougher than any other edition after it, even in the teen levels. Also, a marilith in 1e was 7+7 HD. That's not a CR8. That's about a CR4. CR =/= HD from older editions [/QUOTE]

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