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How viable is 5E to play at high levels?
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<blockquote data-quote="Helldritch" data-source="post: 7216408" data-attributes="member: 6855114"><p>You don't really need a monster update to do the kind of things you want to have.</p><p>Here is what I did before starting to work a bit more on my encounters. It is a "lazy" way to enhance a monster but it works out with all of them. I shared it in another post. Try it out, you'll see. It takes less than a minute to change a monster.</p><p></p><p>Single encounter big bad guys</p><p>Add 1 feat/ASI per 4 CR (save the first four)</p><p>Add 1 legendary action per PC above 4.</p><p>Multiply HP by 1 +0.25 per PC above 4.</p><p>Add 1.5 AC (round up) per PC above 4.</p><p></p><p>Here is a modified lich my players defeated at 17th level in a previous campaign.</p><p></p><p>AC: 17 (natural armor + dex) Now 23 (+1.5 AC x 2 for players number, Staff of power and +1 ring. It could go up to 25 for one attack because of the shield guardian and I am not counting shield. Since shield was an at will power, it became and AC 28 and 30 for one attack)</p><p>HP: 135 (18d8 + 54) Now 238 for a 1.5 multiplyer for number of players and tough feat (+36hp).</p><p>Spd: 30' (unchanged)</p><p>Stats: Unchanged (decided to use feats instead...)</p><p>Added: Warcaster, Elemental Adept Fire (that one was a surprise for my players), Tough.</p><p>Mage feature added: Shield and Mirror image at will (I counted that one as a feat)</p><p>Spell list was changed to reflect the added mage feature and feats.</p><p>Cantrip: Removed prestigiditation and added Fire Bolt. Rose number of cantrip to four and added Green Flame blade</p><p>Level 1: Removed shield and added disguise self (Lich used it to appear human as she did in her life.)</p><p>Level 2: Removed Mirror image and added Misty step instead.</p><p></p><p>Legendary action Rose to 5 (again 6 players)</p><p></p><p>Lich was also using Staff Of Power And a Shield Guardian.</p><p></p><p>Modifying your marilith could be easy.</p><p>Add legendary action</p><p>1) Marilith makes an attack (1 legendary action)</p><p>2) Marilith teleports (2 legendary actions.)</p><p></p><p>If she has treasure, she will use it. A protection ring or bracers +2 could enhance her greatly. So would a magical weapon or two.</p><p>Give her the following feats: Mobile, Sentinel and Martial adept. For the maneuvers chose whatever suits your fancy.</p><p>If you have more than four players (in my case 6). Her AC is raised by 3. Her HP are multiplied 1.5 and she has 5 legendary actions per turn...</p><p></p><p>I used that way to modify the monsters as in the first year of fifth edition I felt a lot like you. We were still on 4e way of doing things and nova happened all the time in my groups. The 5 mwd was the norm in both groups. Then I started to work with the 4 to 6 encounters per day and more restrictive approach to resting (we were using 10 minutes for a short rest and many other unbalancing things either kept from fourth edition or simply out of bad reading). And I also began to make not so standard environment that could either be used by the players or by the monsters. </p><p></p><p>As soon as I started enforcing the above and eleminated the 5 mwd, 5e became much more stable. It did required more work from my part, yet, as time goes on, that work is faster and faster. And the adventures are also better as some fights are really out the ordinary. A fight on levitating platforms that could only hold two medium creature in a windy canyon giving ranged attack disadvantage as the platforms were unstable and tangling a lot is quite a fond memory for the players that played PotA.</p><p></p><p>Even a simple fire pit in the middle of the room, a room with a few balconies, a protection circle vs whatever can change the outlook of a battle.</p><p></p><p>5e is usable at high level, right out of the box. But you need to work a bit more at high level than in the first 12 levels. It was that way with all editions so far.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Helldritch, post: 7216408, member: 6855114"] You don't really need a monster update to do the kind of things you want to have. Here is what I did before starting to work a bit more on my encounters. It is a "lazy" way to enhance a monster but it works out with all of them. I shared it in another post. Try it out, you'll see. It takes less than a minute to change a monster. Single encounter big bad guys Add 1 feat/ASI per 4 CR (save the first four) Add 1 legendary action per PC above 4. Multiply HP by 1 +0.25 per PC above 4. Add 1.5 AC (round up) per PC above 4. Here is a modified lich my players defeated at 17th level in a previous campaign. AC: 17 (natural armor + dex) Now 23 (+1.5 AC x 2 for players number, Staff of power and +1 ring. It could go up to 25 for one attack because of the shield guardian and I am not counting shield. Since shield was an at will power, it became and AC 28 and 30 for one attack) HP: 135 (18d8 + 54) Now 238 for a 1.5 multiplyer for number of players and tough feat (+36hp). Spd: 30' (unchanged) Stats: Unchanged (decided to use feats instead...) Added: Warcaster, Elemental Adept Fire (that one was a surprise for my players), Tough. Mage feature added: Shield and Mirror image at will (I counted that one as a feat) Spell list was changed to reflect the added mage feature and feats. Cantrip: Removed prestigiditation and added Fire Bolt. Rose number of cantrip to four and added Green Flame blade Level 1: Removed shield and added disguise self (Lich used it to appear human as she did in her life.) Level 2: Removed Mirror image and added Misty step instead. Legendary action Rose to 5 (again 6 players) Lich was also using Staff Of Power And a Shield Guardian. Modifying your marilith could be easy. Add legendary action 1) Marilith makes an attack (1 legendary action) 2) Marilith teleports (2 legendary actions.) If she has treasure, she will use it. A protection ring or bracers +2 could enhance her greatly. So would a magical weapon or two. Give her the following feats: Mobile, Sentinel and Martial adept. For the maneuvers chose whatever suits your fancy. If you have more than four players (in my case 6). Her AC is raised by 3. Her HP are multiplied 1.5 and she has 5 legendary actions per turn... I used that way to modify the monsters as in the first year of fifth edition I felt a lot like you. We were still on 4e way of doing things and nova happened all the time in my groups. The 5 mwd was the norm in both groups. Then I started to work with the 4 to 6 encounters per day and more restrictive approach to resting (we were using 10 minutes for a short rest and many other unbalancing things either kept from fourth edition or simply out of bad reading). And I also began to make not so standard environment that could either be used by the players or by the monsters. As soon as I started enforcing the above and eleminated the 5 mwd, 5e became much more stable. It did required more work from my part, yet, as time goes on, that work is faster and faster. And the adventures are also better as some fights are really out the ordinary. A fight on levitating platforms that could only hold two medium creature in a windy canyon giving ranged attack disadvantage as the platforms were unstable and tangling a lot is quite a fond memory for the players that played PotA. Even a simple fire pit in the middle of the room, a room with a few balconies, a protection circle vs whatever can change the outlook of a battle. 5e is usable at high level, right out of the box. But you need to work a bit more at high level than in the first 12 levels. It was that way with all editions so far. [/QUOTE]
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