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Message: <blockquote data-quote="hawkeyefan" data-source="post: 7216522" data-attributes="member: 6785785">Anecdotes are what we all have to share. Individually, they all carry the same weight no matter the frequency with which they are posted.Much of the discussion depends on what we consider "high level" in 5E. That in and of itself is a bit subjective, especially considering how much that's varied over past editions. Then, the subject of this particular thread, is how "viable" the game is to play at high levels. Again, that's subjective. I also don't know how the "out of the box" qualifier gets added. Wasn't mentioned anywhere in the OP. But anytime any topic remotely related to this comes up, you jump in and then make it about your specific criticisms, and apply them as if they are utmost importance. And clearly not everyone agrees. Therefore, discussion is in order. Which means we share anecdotes. And despite your loud and aggressive posts about the topic, your findings are nothing more than a shared anecdote, as well. So, with the above in mind, if we want to limit "high level" only to level 15 and above, then itis hard to judge given that very little published material is aimed at those levels. So we can certainly agree that there is a shortage of adventures for the highest levels. I think that's a valid criticism. I don't think it's the same as saying the game doesn't support high level play, or that the game is not viable at high level.The adventures have provided stats for several demon lords and the elemental princes and plenty of other incredibly powerful creatures. We have the MM and Volo's Guide, which also have tough creatures in them. We have XP charts and class progressions through level 20. We have guidelines for adapting monsters and for creating entirely new ones. None of that is anecdotal. It all exists. Choosing to ignore such tools that have been provided is a choice. You have every right to make that choice, but it's a choice nonetheless. Ignoring those things doesn't mean that they don't exist.So in that sense, the game does support high level play. It's just not in the way that you would prefer. And that's fine...no one is saying you can't feel the way you do. But what you need to stop doing is labeling anyone who disagrees with you as some sort of apologist. And stop treating your opinion as if it's made from some enlightened state that the rest of us have yet to achieve. I find the game is plenty viable at high level. I do put a bit of effort into making it so, but I think that's true of any level, really. Is this me apologizing for WotC? No...it's me sharing my experience on the topic.</blockquote>

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