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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7217677" data-attributes="member: 996">Sure they are.  Some folks are balance-intolerant, some folks are lactose-intolerant - it just make's 'em sick.  It's not as severe as all that, /some/ balance can usually be tolerated.   5e is more of a 'reduced-balanced product' rather than 'certified balance-free,' it has a safe level of balance, unlikely to cause unpleasant reactions in most players.  [sblock="If you remember the edition war, you don't need to see this again, and if you don't, you're better off never seeing it"] Distinction without a difference.  Sure, there's a difference in feel between a game where Tier 1 classes utterly dominate and system mastery is intentionally granted lavish rewards vs one where classes are somewhat balanced and optimization tricks keep getting nerfed by errata.  AEDU was a big part of how 4e balanced classes, yes. Let's compare a few:At-Wills:Fighter exploit - mechanical result:Cleave - untyped damage to a target w/in reach plus untyped damage equal to STR mod to a second adjacent character, both only if the attack on the first target's AC hit.Reaping Strike - untyped damage to a target w/in reach on a hit vs AC, STR mod damage to the same target on a miss.Tide of Iron - untyped damage and push 1 to a target adjacent, and move into a square he vacates, all on a hit vs AC.Wizard:Scorching Burst - fire damage to some, none or all of 9 targets in a burst w/in 10, depending on whether you hit each of their REF defenses individually.Cloud of Daggers - force damage to (generally) one target w/in 25' on a hit vs REF, additional force damage equal to INT mod at start of turn to anyone in that 5' area before the end of your next turn, regardless of hit or miss.Thunderwave - thunder damage & push CON mod to to some, none or all of 9 targets in a blast with your space as the origin, depending on whether you hit each of their FORT defenses individually.Not the same mechanical results, /at all/, nor are you likely to find a lot of martial & arcane powers with results a lot more similar than those.  OTOH, in other editions of D&D, classes use many of the exact same spells, not just the same mechanical results of casting different ones, but the exact same spell.  One's worshiping a god, one's studying a book, one's made a pact with infernal forces, but they might all do the exact same thing.  Virtually none of that in 4e.  (In Essentials, the Cleric(Warpriest) and Druid(Sentinel) both get Healing Word, for about the only instance).Why would you claim that you didn't eschew 4e because it was better-balanced, but then feel the need to give an alternate reason that doesn't stand up to scrutiny?  That, in fact, applies more plausibly to other editions?  [/sblock]Balance is only one of several qualities a game can have, it's OK to have a preference about those various qualities, to value some over others or even actively dislike one or another.  It's especially OK in the context of a quality that a game has long lacked being jarringly inserted into a late edition.</blockquote>

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