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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7217861" data-attributes="member: 996">[sblock=Edition Stuff] The bottom line on the 'feelz' and 'Vtude' arguments was usually something that had been done to balance the classes, very often something done to make the martial classes better.    You'll notice that Sacrosanct dredged up that old 'samey' saw, which never held water, and had no answer to actual examples that illustrated just how different martial 'exploits' and arcane spells really were in 4e, he just kept getting madder and making it about 'insults.'    Sacrosanct, though, apparently needed to block me (you quoted a post I can't see, I don't feel like I'm missing much), even though I thought I made that fairly clear.  I can't say I'm surprised, the way he kept making the discussion personal instead of actually replying to the points being made.  The edition war in miniature, really.  Ironically, his initial observation, equating 'balance' and 'the science of gaming' wasn't particularly off, he just couldn't seem to make it without re-fighting the edition war.  I certainly didn't help.  Two shell-shocked veterans triggering eachother, I guess.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f641.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":(" title="Frown    :("  data-smilie="3"data-shortname=":(" />  Sorry y'all had to see any of that, but if you're lucky, you never looked under the cut, and aren't reading this....back to the thread...[/sblock] ...I think merely 'consistent' results might be acceptable... That goes towards experiences, sure, not that personal anecdotes need that much explaining if they're left at just that, rather than generalized or used as evidence. As Sacrosanct pointed out, D&D had been er 'formulaically'-balanced & scientific in one ed, if not for very long, and 5e is meant to be for fans of all past editions, so the germ of making it that way should be in there.  And, we do have CR & encounter-building, and encounters/rests/day guidelines that could be that germ.(So, like, put on the surgical masks, those of you who don't want to be infected, especially if you visit the 'Elephant' thread...) If you're referring to the book he said he thought would sell like hotcakes, it sounded more like a request for tools to facilitate making the game into something with more room for DMing on the 'science' side.</blockquote>

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