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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 6911380" data-attributes="member: 996">There was no check to spot, there were checks to hide in shadows and move silently (very often both, good luck with that), and there were checks for surprise.  As far as spotting, if you said you looked where something was, you found it. One variation on ability checks I recall was rolling under the ability on a d20.  I used it in 1st ed Gamma World games I ran more recently (like, in the past 10 years), and refined it to 'roll as high as possible without going over' to get a relative sense of how well you did.  I also used a percentile system back in the day, based on ability and level.That was an issue with 2e NWPs, IIRC.I vaguely recall arguments. Very long, but not very vitriolic, arguments.</blockquote>