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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Man in the Funny Hat" data-source="post: 6911421" data-attributes="member: 32740">Short answer:  Because non-thieves aren't SUPPOSED to be acting like thieves.  If you're a fighter you're not supposed to be sneaking up on people, you're supposed to be charging them with sword high and bloodcurdling scream (sort of thing). In fact, the opposite tends to happen.  Thief abilities are CRAP percentages at low levels.  Cleric Magoo decides HE wants to sneak up on someone, so, not having an obvious mechanic for it the DM says, "Roll your dex," or somesuch.  And then the thief player looks at the 15% chance of success to do that for his 1st level PC who's supposedly GOOD at such things and rightfully wonders why he's being screwed so royally.Firstly, players are discouraged from treading into areas where other PC's are supposed to be taking the spotlight.  THIEVES are the ones who sneak, backstab, and hide in shadows.  If that's what you want your PC to do - PLAY THAT CLASS which supports it directly and don't give me any arguments about how logical it is that everybody should be able to do it.  By definition everyone is NOT able to do it because it has been given as a SPECIAL CLASS ABILITY to one class.  Choose something else to do that is more in line with your CHOSEN class abilities or else expect to have a VERY slim chance to succeed.Secondly, I bumped thief abilities HUGELY.  At 1st level, just about all their abilities begin with at least a 50/50 chance of success.  And they do not have to roll to succeed if there isn't a significant reason they might fail.  Need to sneak past a guard?  Well, unless there's peanut shells all over the ground or the guard is especially wary - the thief succeeds.  The game is BETTER for it when the thief is not required to face a RELENTLESS series of checks to do the things he's SUPPOSED to be good at.  If he's hiding in shadows, then unless the PC chooses a really bad, well-lit place to hide then... he successfully hides.  When a thief wants to climb a wall, unless it is DELIBERATELY meant to be a wall that is a deadly danger to attempt to climb, then even if the thief fails the check it does not mean he falls to his death - it means he reaches a certain point and merely can't proceed any further.It's usually been adjudicated by whatever means the DM finds convenient and reasonable.  Note well that prior to 3.x it wasn't exactly a game-ending problem to NOT have carefully detailed rules for anyone and everyone to move silently, hide, fail to notice things, convince NPC's of some lie to accomplish a goal, etc.  Often, if the player could simply give a sufficient justification for why he should succeed then the DM allowed them to succeed.  If the DM wanted the PC's to find something - they found it.  Or at the very least, it was a matter of the description the players gave of what they were searching FOR, where they were looking, etc.; if the DM thought it was close enough to succeed - it succeeded.  No special rolls of dice against intricately detailed chances of success or failure. INTERACTION WITH THE DM determined success or failure.</blockquote>

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