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Message: <blockquote data-quote="buzzard" data-source="post: 1508809" data-attributes="member: 3003">OK let me clarify some of the restrictions I will be working under.A) It is a formal event wherein the encounter is already set up, I cannot modify the playing field. B) The players know about the dragons.C) The dragons know about the players.D) The players are APL about 13-14, and are pretty crafty in a tactical sense. They are also twinked out to an extreme. E) I have a set spell list of the dragons. It is the same for each dragon, and it pretty well sucks. 1st Magic Missile, mage armor, shield, protection from good2nd Blur, flaming sphere Yes, I could have done better, but I have to work with what I have. The party loves to use wall spells to manage the battle space. This will likely prevent fly by attacks. I am looking for tactics which can provide for ranged engagement without getting into melee with the twinked out bruisers. Though I have been checking on the wall spells, the areas possible will be pretty limited. I should be able to breath weapon these people on a pretty regular basis. 12d6 is going to leave a mark no matter what. When I could this with dive bombing, I think I should be able to let them know it was a fight. Though for any suggested tactics, don't assume the party will be in any way stupid. They are pretty well versed in all the tricks in the book.  buzzard</blockquote>