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How would these house rules affect D20?
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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 5423479" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>Err... no, this isn't standard D20.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Err... compared with what.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Right. Forgot about your love affair with naming bonuses, so that addresses one issue. But back to my original issue, a +2 bonus to Fortitude even with an identical name always stacks with a +2 bonus to Reflexes. Stacking only becomes an issue when two bonuses are modifying the same thing.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>A Ftr4/Rgr4 under RAW would have save bonuses of +8/+5/+2. While you might quibble that this isn't fully reasonable (for the same reason that large gaps between good and bad saves aren't reasonable), it's a bit more reasonable in one respect than +6/+6/+4 precisely because that array demonstrates the problem I'm talking about. If the character was a 8th level fighter, he'd have an array of +6/+4/+4 under your system. But by dipping even one level into Ranger, he goes immediately to +6/+6/+4 - essentially pickuping up Lightning Reflexes for free with no drawback beyond those associated with multiclassing (which generally balance out with the benifits of multiclassing except for spellcasting classing). Normally when you multiclass, the fact that your bad save is stuck permenently bad - barring your DM having a fractional accounting house rule - is one of the main drawbacks that balances against all that dipping (particularly because many classes tend to be front loaded).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sure, but 90% of the value of Wisdom for most classes is that it adds to your Will save. If I'm not a spellcaster that depends on Wisdom, and I'm not the party's primary 'scout', then Wisdom would probably have no value to me if I could get a good Will save from some other stat (say Charisma). If I actually get a direct benefit from Charisma, then I'm always going to ignore Wisdom (probably completely) under these circumstances. Likewise, for many classes the benefit of Dexterity is probably 50% in getting a Reflex bonus from it because I'm likely going to be wearing heavy armor that prevents the use of Dexterity as an AC enhancer. So if I can substitute something else for Dexterity in Reflex saves, there is a good chance its going to be ignored completely. The big benefit here is probably going to be to spellcasters, who are already tempted to dump everything in to their spellcasting attribute and everything left over into constitution. This makes that even more viable.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 5423479, member: 4937"] Err... no, this isn't standard D20. Err... compared with what. Right. Forgot about your love affair with naming bonuses, so that addresses one issue. But back to my original issue, a +2 bonus to Fortitude even with an identical name always stacks with a +2 bonus to Reflexes. Stacking only becomes an issue when two bonuses are modifying the same thing. A Ftr4/Rgr4 under RAW would have save bonuses of +8/+5/+2. While you might quibble that this isn't fully reasonable (for the same reason that large gaps between good and bad saves aren't reasonable), it's a bit more reasonable in one respect than +6/+6/+4 precisely because that array demonstrates the problem I'm talking about. If the character was a 8th level fighter, he'd have an array of +6/+4/+4 under your system. But by dipping even one level into Ranger, he goes immediately to +6/+6/+4 - essentially pickuping up Lightning Reflexes for free with no drawback beyond those associated with multiclassing (which generally balance out with the benifits of multiclassing except for spellcasting classing). Normally when you multiclass, the fact that your bad save is stuck permenently bad - barring your DM having a fractional accounting house rule - is one of the main drawbacks that balances against all that dipping (particularly because many classes tend to be front loaded). Sure, but 90% of the value of Wisdom for most classes is that it adds to your Will save. If I'm not a spellcaster that depends on Wisdom, and I'm not the party's primary 'scout', then Wisdom would probably have no value to me if I could get a good Will save from some other stat (say Charisma). If I actually get a direct benefit from Charisma, then I'm always going to ignore Wisdom (probably completely) under these circumstances. Likewise, for many classes the benefit of Dexterity is probably 50% in getting a Reflex bonus from it because I'm likely going to be wearing heavy armor that prevents the use of Dexterity as an AC enhancer. So if I can substitute something else for Dexterity in Reflex saves, there is a good chance its going to be ignored completely. The big benefit here is probably going to be to spellcasters, who are already tempted to dump everything in to their spellcasting attribute and everything left over into constitution. This makes that even more viable. [/QUOTE]
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