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<blockquote data-quote="ThePolarBear" data-source="post: 6982455" data-attributes="member: 6857451">Neither, but 2 is the closest to what could happen.For surprise only: If even a single component of a group is noticed, surprise is no longer a factor for that character. Each individual passive perception is compared to each individual stealth roll, and if even one stealth roll is lower than the passive wisdom, the individual is not surprised. In this particular case 8 is always lower than the passive scores, so no PC is surprised.For &quot;hidden&quot;: Hiding is a contest between Dex(stealth) and Wis(perception). For rules of contest resolution, ties are resolved by leaving the situation &quot;as it was before&quot;. The situation &quot;before&quot; is &quot;pc's do not know the goblins are there&quot;. So, for PCs that have 10 Passive Wis(Perception) all goblins 10+ Dex(Stealth) are still hidden - unseen, unheard and position unknown. For PCs with 11, gobbos with 11+ are hidden.This situation of different &quot;perceptions&quot; is usually glossed over by &quot;imagining&quot; PCs warning each other, but the point is that there are 2 goblins hiding from all of them, not 1.Even for those gobbos that are not hidden: not being hidden does NOT automatically mean that they are SEEN. If it's impossible for them to be seen (in darkness, behind a wall...) they are still unseen, but their location is known and their actions are &quot;perceptible&quot; in suitable ways - until they successfully hide. If they can take a shot while REMAINING unseen they still get advantage on the roll.All of this obviously always under dms approval and subject to dm revision/change.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ThePolarBear, post: 6982455, member: 6857451"] Neither, but 2 is the closest to what could happen. For surprise only: If even a single component of a group is noticed, surprise is no longer a factor for that character. Each individual passive perception is compared to each individual stealth roll, and if even one stealth roll is lower than the passive wisdom, the individual is not surprised. In this particular case 8 is always lower than the passive scores, so no PC is surprised. For "hidden": Hiding is a contest between Dex(stealth) and Wis(perception). For rules of contest resolution, ties are resolved by leaving the situation "as it was before". The situation "before" is "pc's do not know the goblins are there". So, for PCs that have 10 Passive Wis(Perception) all goblins 10+ Dex(Stealth) are still hidden - unseen, unheard and position unknown. For PCs with 11, gobbos with 11+ are hidden. This situation of different "perceptions" is usually glossed over by "imagining" PCs warning each other, but the point is that there are 2 goblins hiding from all of them, not 1. Even for those gobbos that are not hidden: not being hidden does NOT automatically mean that they are SEEN. If it's impossible for them to be seen (in darkness, behind a wall...) they are still unseen, but their location is known and their actions are "perceptible" in suitable ways - until they successfully hide. If they can take a shot while REMAINING unseen they still get advantage on the roll. All of this obviously always under dms approval and subject to dm revision/change. [/QUOTE]

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