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Message: <blockquote data-quote="skippy_the_witch" data-source="post: 1625587" data-attributes="member: 18980">I don't have to balance clerics at all in my homebrew, because there are no clerics in my world.  Due to the corrupting influence of the Shadow and it's Taint effect on magic and the world, this world has been quarrantined from both the astral plane and higher and lower planes.  Thus, clerics have no access to divine powers, and so no spells, becoming little more than fighters.As for bards, I think you folks are nuts.  Bards, played correctly, are by far the most powerful class in basic 3.5 edition.  But, I have found that most players have absolutely no clue how to play a bard, usually trying to use him as a thief with spells (a pseudo rogue/sorcerer).  And any bard used this way usually does not survive for long, which is exactly what that player deserves.  If a bard has to draw a weapon, then he has already lost.  A bard is supposed to be a master of propaganda, of manipulation of emotions, of enchantment magics, not a spell slinger, or backstabber, or even duelist.Here is a bards way of destroying an enemy.  First, use suggestion or like bardic music ability (preferably on a child) and have them spread some sort of nasty rumor or report some sort of false attack.  Add more people to this over the next few days, feeding the fire by spreading rumors yourself ("I'm not one to gossip, but did you hear about what Lord Fred did..."), until you have a good solid mob mentality.  Then through some subtle, or even not so subtle, control of the right person, have mob light torches and storm castle.  Within a week to a month, a bard should be able to stir up a revolution even in the most well adjusted population and kingdom (with a little help from some magic).  That is just one of the many powerful things a bard can do.Even for a party, a bard can be a god-send.  He can write songs about the "heroic" exploits of the party, adding immesurably to their reputation.  This can lead to the party gaining patrons, contracts, etc.  A properly trained bard can even save the party from a raging mob, convincing said mob that "burning down the village to save the village" is a reasonable idea.  Hell, if he does his job right, the bard can even get the mob to "thank" the party for what they have done.  This ability to insite revolution or rally mobs is the reason why my seemingly benevalent fascist Federation (the civilized area of my technomagical pseudo-post-apocalyptic homebrew campaign) does not permit bards within their borders (an outed bard within the Federation either does not stay long or has an inevitably fatal "accident").But all many gamers see is how good a character is in combat, or during the aftermath of combat (healing, etc), not what his true potential is.  Remember that we are supposed to be playing ROLE PLAYING Games, so if you are not willing to role-play, or if the extent of your role playing is a nifty battle cry before you hack and slash your way through a campaign, then you might want to switch to War Games (such as War Hammer).  They can be just as much fun and combat capability is the be all and end all.Enough of my ranting.skippyGM of The Cursed Earth Campaign</blockquote>

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