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Message: <blockquote data-quote="der_kluge" data-source="post: 1626942" data-attributes="member: 945">Cleric - IMC, I have removed "Heavy Armor Proficiency".  I have also removed some spells that I felt were more in the druid's arena - Repel vermin, and Insect plague.  I also placed the [evil] tag on Slay Living.I have modified a few other spells, but most of those changes have more to do with my campaign, than they do with attempts at balancing the class.Bards, on the other hand, are another kettle of fish.I like Mossfoot's approach, but it doesn't solve the "guy standing there playing some Abba on his flute while his comrades are engaged in deadly combat with a dragon" problem that was cited earlier.  This is a very hokey concept, and one I personally have a hard time getting my head around.I've actually been working on a couple of classes.  I split the Bard into two classes - archaeologist, and minstrel.  I posted my archaeologist class in House Rules quite a while back.  I can dig up that thread if anyone wants it.  Some described it as a bit weak, which might be true, but it's a good foundation.  Basically, it's a sort of cross between rogue/transmutor, with some inate ability to identify magic items.The second class I've been working on is the minstrel, and it is a pure music-based class inspired in large part by the bard from Everquest.  Bard's in everquest had a variety of songs, and every level they gained a new one.  They had songs that could find corpses (useful in EQ), songs that slowly healed everyone in the party, songs that gave everyone in the party "expeditious retreat", and a variety of other buffing, utility, and damage songs.  It was a great class in that game, and as someone mentioned earlier, everyone wanted one, especially clerics (I played a cleric in EQ), and having a bard was great, because it meant the cleric's job was much easier.In theory, a great bard class should be able to augment the abilities of EVERY other class in the group.  The bard should be able to help the wizard with some utility spells, help the rogue gather information, help the fighter fight, and help the cleric heal.  All the bard can do now is seduce politicians and women.  That's about it.My minstrel was based on the EQ bard, and I came up with a list of 80 songs.  Every song could be sung as long as the minstrel desired, and the effect lasted as long as the minstrel was singing.  Some songs were based on vocals, others on stringed instruments, or brass, or other.  If a song could be created with vocals, it meant that a song that required strings could be played at the same time to double up some effects.  You can't play a trumpet, and a lute at the same time, for example.I divided songs into categories.  I had utility songs, defensive, offensive, clerical, and enchantment.  Furthermore, the idea of "twisting" a song enabled the minstrel to stop one song, start another and, for a brief time, have some overlapping song effects.I admit, it's a complex class, and quite a bit different than anything in D&D.  It would require a mountain of playtesting, and might actually be a bit boring to play, since all the minstrel could do, really, is just stay out of harm's way, and manage a jukebox of songs.  I also haven't worked on it in a while, but if anyone is interested, I would be willing to send you my files, and I would be happy to entertain ideas and suggestions, we could work on refining it together.</blockquote>

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