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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 9038529" data-attributes="member: 93670">That's not how the playloop works though.&nbsp; The player is incapable of knowing what skills might be relevant to a check and the skills themselves are so overly condensed that is almost guaranteed someone will either have the ability to say &quot;oh I'm proficient in that and I have all six attributes too&quot; or the very act of having a full group saying&nbsp; &quot;do you think that applies to this check&quot; reveals things the group shouldn't be aware of just by&nbsp; the very act of what gets a no with the inevitable drips &amp; drabs of reasoning that keeps the GM from seeming hostile. 5e's skill system desperately wants to have the good aspects of pre-3.x cross GM screen collaborative narrative skills -and- deeply defined&nbsp; 3.x skill lists but&nbsp; it just gives the worst of both to GMs.&nbsp; The skills aren't defined with enough granularity for the good that 3.x style had and they are too defined for 2e style. Using different ability scores with skills was a thing that goes wayyy back &amp; is so simplistic that it amounts to being hardly something that can act as a keystone completing an incomplete set of skills, nor can it wash out a defined skill list to create a 2e style near-skillless skill system</blockquote>

[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 9038529, member: 93670"] That's not how the playloop works though. The [I]player[/I] is [I]incapable[/I] of knowing what skills might be relevant to a check and the skills themselves are so overly condensed that is almost guaranteed someone will either have the ability to say "oh I'm proficient in that [I]and[/I] I have all six attributes too" or the very act of having a full group saying "do you think that applies to this check" reveals things the group shouldn't be aware of just by the very act of what gets a no with the inevitable drips & drabs of reasoning that keeps the GM from seeming hostile. 5e's skill system desperately wants to have the good aspects of pre-3.x cross GM screen collaborative narrative skills [I]-and-[/I] deeply defined 3.x skill lists but it just gives the worst of both to GMs. The skills aren't defined with enough granularity for the good that 3.x style had and they are [I]too[/I] defined for 2e style. Using different ability scores with skills was a thing that goes wayyy back & is so simplistic that it amounts to being hardly something that can act as a keystone completing an incomplete set of skills, nor can it wash out a defined skill list to create a 2e style near-skillless skill system [/QUOTE]

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