How would you do 3.5e in 160 pages?

[Ry]

The Rules Compendium discussion has me thinking about what I'd want from a Rules Cyclopedia based on 3.5, if there was one. I don't think it's going to be the book I want it to be, which is 1 160 pager that was the only book I'd need at the table for a 3.5 game.

There's a few ways you could go about this.

I think making a "basic game" that covered levels 1-10 from both sides of the screen would be excellent, but I'm biased towards that end of the game. But whether I was trying for 1-10 or 1-20, I would try:

4 pages Ability Scores,
4 pages races,
20 pages classes,
8 pages feats,
8 pages equipment,
20 pages combat,
40 pages of spells,
16 pages conditions,
40 pages of monsters.

There'd be compact writing and merciless omission of fluff.

 

[Rhun]

This is an easy question, IMHO. Revamp the magic system completely. Now granted, I only have the 3.0 PHB, but pages 147-274 are dedicated to magic and spells. I'm not offering opinions on how to do this, just simply stating that if half the rule book needs to be dedicated to spells, there is something horribly wrong.

Personally, I would like to see a system for creating spells, instead of a system for picking spells that are already created by someone else.

 

[Ry]

I think revamping the magic system would be the province of a new edition; I'm talking about how to do a good rulebook this edition in 160 pages. I think it can be done by drilling down to just the most used spells, most used monsters, and so on.

 

[maggot]

I certainly don't want 16 pages of conditions. I like the saga system where you have only six conditions (all okay, -1 to every thing, -2, -5, -10, and unconscious).

I don't want monsters in the rule book because those are setting specific. Animals perhaps, but those are still setting specific.

 

[Ry]

I was thinking that with 40 pages of monsters you're hitting some very generic niches. Monsters might be setting specific but having Ogre, Troll, Giant, Goblin, Orc, Skeleton, Zombie... these are pretty widely-used niches for monsters.

Again, for the conditions, you're talking about a change in editions. But if you can do conditions in 8 pages, I'd love to have templates for the other 8 to round out those monsters.

 

[Glyfair]

Animals perhaps, but those are still setting specific.

If you are going so far as to eliminate animals because they are "setting specific" than you might as well eliminate all the races. They are "setting specific" as well.

As long as you approach an 160 page rulebook as a limited rules set, I think it could be done. Stick to the 4 core classes (maybe use the sorcerer instead of the wizard). Eliminating specialist wizards allows you to cut down the spell lists to about 10 per level per class, even less at the higher levels. Cut down weapon lists (no need for the rarely used weapons), feats, and way down on the magic items. Cut out the section on how to play the game, DM a game, etc.

The original Runequest 2 book only had about 10-15 pages of monsters, and that included all the non-human races. I think a very limited selection of monsters could be done. The big complaint would be the lack of dragons. They take up so much space that they need to go, except maybe one or two specific examples.

 

[painandgreed]

Cut down the number of pages for classes because there would only be the four, Cleric, magic-user, fighter, and rogue. All skills and feats would be prechosen, meaning you could cut the bit on feats because they'd all be class features. Add a few pages about skills. Not even sure what you're talking about with 16 pages of conditions, but I'm sure there will be some non-combat rules needed.

 

[Kem]

Hmmmm. The WoD main book is rather small. No real fluff in it...

Without Monsters I think it can be done in 160 Pages easy.
Monsters are the only thing I would have an issue getting down.

I think I'm going to see what I can do with that limitation.
This is what I am thinking.

2 pages Ability Scores, (1 is possible too if use the ugly bonus spell formula)
2 pages races, (4 is way to many, with 2 columns you can fit 4 to a page)
20 pages Classes, (I think this can be cut down, don't need the tables so much)
8 pages feats, (Still big, I am including skills in here)
8 pages equipment, (Slice)
20 pages combat, (Another cutting area)
10 pages conditions,
Leftovers for spells.

Yeah I think its doable easily without monsters.

Now at least I know what I will be doing on my breaks at work for a while

 

[Delta]

I think this is turning into what we'd all like to see in a cut-down D&D basic version, but I'll throw in mine:

- 4 races
- 4 classes
- Cut out skills
- Basic (fighter) feats
- Cut-down equipment
- Monsters from the OD&D set
- Levels 1-12, hence only spells 1-6

One thing I've realized is, holy smoke, can the race descriptions be cut down. One problem with 3E edition is they kept all kinds of old-school racial modifications that don't interface well with the 3E mechanics. Don't give dwarves +2 saves vs. poison and spells (1E save categories) -- give them +2 Fortitude and Will saves. Stuff like that. I've cut the racial descriptions in my game down to a whole 3 lines apiece.

Edit: And get rid of the damn cantrips!

 

[w_earle_wheeler]

About a month and a half ago, I was talking with some people on the board about the possibility of making a 32-page booklet containing all or almost all of the spells from the PHB. The general consensus of the thread was that it would be possible with heavy editing and without a need for many (if any) rules changes.

Maybe that project will come to fruition when I have more free time.