Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
How would you do the sword mage in 5e?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 8863619" data-attributes="member: 7030563"><p>From a math point of view, this was true with the SCAG bladesinger, but it is no longer true with the new version of the bladesinger extra attack. At 5th level a bladesingers attack action is landing an extra d8, at 11th level 2d8, at 14th an extra 2d8+2xInt and at 17th an extra 3d8+2xInt. That is before you consider secondary damage which is easy to land as a bladesinger if you are using Blur or PEG against an enemy that is effected by it (or for that matter Haste).</p><p></p><p>In addition to the above, when caluclating damage with blur or PEG you also have to also consider that AOOs against you do not matter because when combined with shield or silverybarbs, they will almost never land in tier 1 or tier 2. This means you can move at will and force the enemy to move or give up on attack actions. Usually (not always) you are going to land secondary cantrip damage if you are a bladesinger using extra attack with booming blade and blur up. That is another 1d8 at low levels and 2d8 in levels 5-8. If you use Shadow Blade or Hex or Spirit Shroud or something like that you will do the same or less damage, while getting hit more often.</p><p></p><p>From a straight math point of view it is not underpowered. In play the thing that really makes it underpowered in melee on the base class is the lack of weapon proficiencies and inability to use strength-based weapons if you play with point buy. This puts you in a situation where, using only the class options, you can't use most of the magic weapons you find well unless it is the one you picked with training in war and song. The same thing is true with a lot of power melee builds using Great Weapon Master or Pole Arm Master, they tie you to a very small number of weapons to make them work well.</p><p></p><p>You can fix this with race though on a Bladesinger. Playing a Drow gives you the exact weapon proficiencies you want (as does playing another class with weapon proficiencies and switching them to what the Drow gets). This makes your weapon selection as good as any Dex melee character. Likewise playing a V. human or custom and taking weapon master at 1st level to boost dexterity also gives you the weapons you want without putting you behind on the ASI tree. Finally, it is fixable if the DM lets you buy magic weapons, which allows you to just buy the exact weapons you need.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>In tier 1 and tier 2 blur or PEG combined with shield and bladesong nearly eliminates the damage you take from attacks. In tier 3 it severely reduces it.</p><p></p><p>It is not uncommon for a bladesinger to be in a position where an enemy needs a double 20 (20 with disadvantage) after you already put up a shield in order to hit a bladesinger. If you have not put up shield yet, even that roll is going to probably miss due to silvery barbs.</p><p></p><p>Blur or PEG will cut the damage you take in teir 2 by about 90% and if you are always in melee, that will matter unless you have other characters that are going to heal you or have spare actions to spend drinking healing potions.</p><p></p><p>Also Blur does not only reduce the damage you take, it stops you from being effected by hits and those effects are even more dangerous. I am talking about things like being engulfed by a Shambling Mound or Being Swallowed by a Purple Worm or even being poisoned by a lowly Imp. Those kinds of effects are devestating in melee, but they require a hit to land.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ECMO3, post: 8863619, member: 7030563"] From a math point of view, this was true with the SCAG bladesinger, but it is no longer true with the new version of the bladesinger extra attack. At 5th level a bladesingers attack action is landing an extra d8, at 11th level 2d8, at 14th an extra 2d8+2xInt and at 17th an extra 3d8+2xInt. That is before you consider secondary damage which is easy to land as a bladesinger if you are using Blur or PEG against an enemy that is effected by it (or for that matter Haste). In addition to the above, when caluclating damage with blur or PEG you also have to also consider that AOOs against you do not matter because when combined with shield or silverybarbs, they will almost never land in tier 1 or tier 2. This means you can move at will and force the enemy to move or give up on attack actions. Usually (not always) you are going to land secondary cantrip damage if you are a bladesinger using extra attack with booming blade and blur up. That is another 1d8 at low levels and 2d8 in levels 5-8. If you use Shadow Blade or Hex or Spirit Shroud or something like that you will do the same or less damage, while getting hit more often. From a straight math point of view it is not underpowered. In play the thing that really makes it underpowered in melee on the base class is the lack of weapon proficiencies and inability to use strength-based weapons if you play with point buy. This puts you in a situation where, using only the class options, you can't use most of the magic weapons you find well unless it is the one you picked with training in war and song. The same thing is true with a lot of power melee builds using Great Weapon Master or Pole Arm Master, they tie you to a very small number of weapons to make them work well. You can fix this with race though on a Bladesinger. Playing a Drow gives you the exact weapon proficiencies you want (as does playing another class with weapon proficiencies and switching them to what the Drow gets). This makes your weapon selection as good as any Dex melee character. Likewise playing a V. human or custom and taking weapon master at 1st level to boost dexterity also gives you the weapons you want without putting you behind on the ASI tree. Finally, it is fixable if the DM lets you buy magic weapons, which allows you to just buy the exact weapons you need. In tier 1 and tier 2 blur or PEG combined with shield and bladesong nearly eliminates the damage you take from attacks. In tier 3 it severely reduces it. It is not uncommon for a bladesinger to be in a position where an enemy needs a double 20 (20 with disadvantage) after you already put up a shield in order to hit a bladesinger. If you have not put up shield yet, even that roll is going to probably miss due to silvery barbs. Blur or PEG will cut the damage you take in teir 2 by about 90% and if you are always in melee, that will matter unless you have other characters that are going to heal you or have spare actions to spend drinking healing potions. Also Blur does not only reduce the damage you take, it stops you from being effected by hits and those effects are even more dangerous. I am talking about things like being engulfed by a Shambling Mound or Being Swallowed by a Purple Worm or even being poisoned by a lowly Imp. Those kinds of effects are devestating in melee, but they require a hit to land. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
How would you do the sword mage in 5e?
Top