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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pming" data-source="post: 6983079" data-attributes="member: 45197">Hiya!I would add a caveat to that: "...up to a certain point".If the DM is doing his job as DM (re: being the gods, the multiverse, and everything) he can either just outright allow this...which begs the question of just why the gods are even needed. Personally I go with the old 1e standby of "low level [1st and, at most, 2nd] spells are due to devotion and knowledge in the religion and god/dess". With 3rd to 5th level spells, these spells are granted via an intermediary of the characters god; a deva, planetar, solar, devil, demon, elemental lord, greater nature spirit, etc. With 6th and 7th level spells, these are granted directly from the deity in question.So, while a person who doesn't believe in the gods could, theoretically, learn to be a 'cleric'...even if they kept at it for months and years...once he hit level 5 and would supposedly be granted access to 3rd level cleric spells, he wouldn't. He'd likely, at that point, start to wonder if he was actually wrong about that whole 'gods' thing. I mean, if all that being a cleric was, was "preaching and memorizing a book/scroll/religious writing", and he has done that all...why does Bill, his buddy cleric there get 3rd level spells and he doesn't? How the character rationalizes this would be...interesting.Wizard learn arcane spells; has nothing to do with a deity. Bards, paladins, etc...they have to abide by the same "granting of spells" as do clerics (with regards to divine spells). Of course, if the DM just shurgs his shoulders and says "I don't care. You're a 5th level cleric, you get 3rd level spells. Pick 'em"...well, that's fine too. Just not my particular cup o' tea.(PS: I'd also disallow the cleric the whole "turn undead" power from day one...so that right there should be a dead..hehe..give away as to gods being real).^_^Paul L. Ming</blockquote>

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