Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
How would you houserule (nerf) magic at high levels.
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Dausuul" data-source="post: 5482743" data-attributes="member: 58197"><p>I don't think the problem is fixable with a simple tweak. It's too deeply embedded in the system.</p><p></p><p>You could bring high-level 3E wizards down to the power level they had in AD&D by removing the spell level modifier from save DCs and making all spells into full-round actions. But honestly, AD&D wizards were pretty damn powerful at high levels too. Past a certain point, sheer utility trumps everything else.</p><p></p><p>To really address the problem, you have to get to the root of the issue, which is that the wizard is the goddamn Batman. Wizards can do anything--not just in the mechanical sense, but in the game-world sense. Fighters and rogues are constrained by "What could a human being with this kind of training reasonably* accomplish?" Clerics and wizards lack any such constraint. There's no underlying theory of magic that would put hard limits on what they can do.</p><p></p><p>I would go the warmage/beguiler/dread necromancer route. Take the wizard spell list and slice it up by theme; each slice should get enough spells to make a functional and useful class, but at the same time there should be clearly defined limits for each. If you're a necromancer, you can inflict disease and decay, drain life-force, raise and control undead, and maybe manipulate darkness and shadow. But you can't throw fireballs or teleport or open locks; your brand of magic simply doesn't cover that stuff.</p><p></p><p>[size=-2]*For certain values of "reasonably." High-level fighters and rogues are far more bad-ass than anyone in the real world. But they're still mundane human beings, just turned up to eleven. Without magical aid, a high-level fighter may be able to jump twice as far as an Olympic long jumper, but she can't jump over mountains, nor can she sprout wings and fly.[/size]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Dausuul, post: 5482743, member: 58197"] I don't think the problem is fixable with a simple tweak. It's too deeply embedded in the system. You could bring high-level 3E wizards down to the power level they had in AD&D by removing the spell level modifier from save DCs and making all spells into full-round actions. But honestly, AD&D wizards were pretty damn powerful at high levels too. Past a certain point, sheer utility trumps everything else. To really address the problem, you have to get to the root of the issue, which is that the wizard is the goddamn Batman. Wizards can do anything--not just in the mechanical sense, but in the game-world sense. Fighters and rogues are constrained by "What could a human being with this kind of training reasonably* accomplish?" Clerics and wizards lack any such constraint. There's no underlying theory of magic that would put hard limits on what they can do. I would go the warmage/beguiler/dread necromancer route. Take the wizard spell list and slice it up by theme; each slice should get enough spells to make a functional and useful class, but at the same time there should be clearly defined limits for each. If you're a necromancer, you can inflict disease and decay, drain life-force, raise and control undead, and maybe manipulate darkness and shadow. But you can't throw fireballs or teleport or open locks; your brand of magic simply doesn't cover that stuff. [size=-2]*For certain values of "reasonably." High-level fighters and rogues are far more bad-ass than anyone in the real world. But they're still mundane human beings, just turned up to eleven. Without magical aid, a high-level fighter may be able to jump twice as far as an Olympic long jumper, but she can't jump over mountains, nor can she sprout wings and fly.[/size] [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
How would you houserule (nerf) magic at high levels.
Top