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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Herremann the Wise" data-source="post: 5486466" data-attributes="member: 11300">Note that 1's are not auto-fails so if you have enough ranks... However, at play as well is the economy of actions. For someone to climb, it is just a move action, where as to "spell up", you must throw a further standard action from a caster into the mix. I think the crux of the matter here is that the "magic" method works better than the mundane - which in terms of magic in general is actually OK with me. However, perhaps the real issue here that annoys people is not that magic is inherently powerful or effective, but that a player and character is in autocratic control of such things. Knowing that another player has an ace up the sleeve that completely trumps what you spent resources developing your character with is not fun!However, there are a couple of variables here that can be played with that provides the type of "wizard nerfing" that is needed on this issue. Firstly as a spell that is castable in combat, get rid of it. Perhaps even as a longer casting time "ritual", say no. Instead, imagine that it is an effect that can only be produced by a single-use magical item - a "potion of spider climb" but a more non-generic one such as a hairy paste applied to the shoes or some such. In this way, it is something that may be acquired and controlled by any character rather than being the sole province and responsibility of the wizard.Next is not making a player's choice of having their character specialize in climb be superceded by a spell or magical item. One way is having the item provide a static bonus to cimb checks. The only thing is that this does little benefit overall. A "spider-climbing" character is generally not going to be failing their climb. What needs to happen then is providing a further bonus to the heavily trained climber so that they get something special such as a longer duration, greater climb speed and so on.Finally is pricing the item so that it is not so underpriced that it is an automatic selection in everyone's backpack, not so over-priced that it becomes completely uneconomical but that there's a nice balance between the skilled climber being slightly more advantaged doing it on their own rather than having to use the magical item.I think such an approach would be helpful in nerfing this aspect of the wizard - spells that cover the group not having a particular skill or role covered but that end up stomping on the toes of such characters when they are present in a group. Spider climb, knock etc.Just a thought.Best RegardsHerremann the Wise</blockquote>

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