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How would you houserule (nerf) magic at high levels.
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5488933" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>It's not entirely clear, in classic AD&D or in 3E, what the wizard's niche is. In Chainmail and early D&D there was a sense that wizards were primarily artillery (magic missile, fireball, lightning bolt). Spells like Sleep and Charm Person added a type of special-ops/anti-personnel dimension. (In an early White Dwarf article Lewis Pulsipher identifies artillery and enchanter as the two main options for a PC wizard.)</p><p></p><p>By the height of AD&D, though, let alone 3E, the wizard niche seems to be "any magic except healing". And because magic can do anything (after all, it's magic!) the wizard's niche becomes everything (except healing - a game like Arcana Unearthed follows the logic to its conclusion and gives the Magister access to healing magic).</p><p></p><p>It's true that a wizard can be played as a support character - Enlarging the fighter, Invising the rogue etc. Depending on the group, however, the players may well notice that there are often more optimal strategies available. And once these are explored for a bit, it is hard to unlearn what's been learned and return to playing the pure support wizard.</p><p></p><p>As for the wizard's need for spider climb to keep up with the other PCs - the 4e solution lets wizards be able to climb without being <em>better</em> at it than rogues and fighters. In 3E - for those who don't like the anti-simulationist tenor of the 4 approach - you could introduce a cantrip called "Magical assistance" which lets a wizard grant herself +5 to a single untrained skill check. This would allow a wizard to climb, or swim, or jump, using magical power to help, without overshadowing those classes for whom athletic prowess is actually part of the raison d'etre.</p><p></p><p>Others have made the point about scrolls and wands in 3E. As for the need for the party to function without a rogue - this returns us to the question "What is a wizard's niche?"</p><p></p><p>A wizard can sub for a fighter (Tenser's Transformation, summoned monsters etc) or for a rogue (knock, invis, spider climb, etc). Neither of those classes can sub for a wizard's artillery (at least until a high level rogue gets a wand of fireballs - which in any event are probably doing fewer dice of damage than the wizard's would be) or anti-personnel charm/sleep/death ray powers.</p><p></p><p>If no one in the party has chosen to play a rogue, the GM can probably afford to dial back the traps, locked doors etc a bit - as apparently the play group doesn't see engaging with such things as at the forefront of their play experience. Or maybe the fighter can break down the locked doors with a feat of might strength. Or the paladin say a prayer which reveals the trap on the evil altar. It doesn't have to be the wizard.</p><p></p><p>I don't see what this has to do with niche protection so much as silly playing and GMing. If the fighter wants to impress the king with his/her athletic prowess, than (i) it's up to the players to construe a way to do that sensibly - perhaps they arrange for the king to see the fighter performing feats of strength in the arena - and (ii) it presumably has already been established that the king has some reason to think that being strong is impressive or important.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 5488933, member: 42582"] It's not entirely clear, in classic AD&D or in 3E, what the wizard's niche is. In Chainmail and early D&D there was a sense that wizards were primarily artillery (magic missile, fireball, lightning bolt). Spells like Sleep and Charm Person added a type of special-ops/anti-personnel dimension. (In an early White Dwarf article Lewis Pulsipher identifies artillery and enchanter as the two main options for a PC wizard.) By the height of AD&D, though, let alone 3E, the wizard niche seems to be "any magic except healing". And because magic can do anything (after all, it's magic!) the wizard's niche becomes everything (except healing - a game like Arcana Unearthed follows the logic to its conclusion and gives the Magister access to healing magic). It's true that a wizard can be played as a support character - Enlarging the fighter, Invising the rogue etc. Depending on the group, however, the players may well notice that there are often more optimal strategies available. And once these are explored for a bit, it is hard to unlearn what's been learned and return to playing the pure support wizard. As for the wizard's need for spider climb to keep up with the other PCs - the 4e solution lets wizards be able to climb without being [I]better[/I] at it than rogues and fighters. In 3E - for those who don't like the anti-simulationist tenor of the 4 approach - you could introduce a cantrip called "Magical assistance" which lets a wizard grant herself +5 to a single untrained skill check. This would allow a wizard to climb, or swim, or jump, using magical power to help, without overshadowing those classes for whom athletic prowess is actually part of the raison d'etre. Others have made the point about scrolls and wands in 3E. As for the need for the party to function without a rogue - this returns us to the question "What is a wizard's niche?" A wizard can sub for a fighter (Tenser's Transformation, summoned monsters etc) or for a rogue (knock, invis, spider climb, etc). Neither of those classes can sub for a wizard's artillery (at least until a high level rogue gets a wand of fireballs - which in any event are probably doing fewer dice of damage than the wizard's would be) or anti-personnel charm/sleep/death ray powers. If no one in the party has chosen to play a rogue, the GM can probably afford to dial back the traps, locked doors etc a bit - as apparently the play group doesn't see engaging with such things as at the forefront of their play experience. Or maybe the fighter can break down the locked doors with a feat of might strength. Or the paladin say a prayer which reveals the trap on the evil altar. It doesn't have to be the wizard. I don't see what this has to do with niche protection so much as silly playing and GMing. If the fighter wants to impress the king with his/her athletic prowess, than (i) it's up to the players to construe a way to do that sensibly - perhaps they arrange for the king to see the fighter performing feats of strength in the arena - and (ii) it presumably has already been established that the king has some reason to think that being strong is impressive or important. [/QUOTE]
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