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How would you houserule (nerf) magic at high levels.
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<blockquote data-quote="CuRoi" data-source="post: 5489956" data-attributes="member: 98032"><p>Since I chimed in support of the notion - I personally don't run low magic, low wealth campaigns simply to target Wizards. I do it for the type of story I'm trying to achieve. The flattening out of any power curve or perceived imbalance is simply a consequence.</p><p> </p><p>I see LOTS of games where every player starts with loads of magic items, (custom created to fully exploit the rules naturally) stats which are incredibly high on any point scale, and Wizards with cherry picked "broken" spells. The same games probably generate a lot of "OMG Wizards need to be NERFED!" buzz I would imagine. I mean, I do agree at higher levels I'm betting on a wizard in a fight, but in many cases, its like low level - it boils down to initiative and maybe surprise if it is to be had.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>I admit, a smart, fully prepared, unsurprised, I just won initiative and have some precast defensive spells Wizard is at the top of the pecking order. How much of that is due to intelligence depends on the scenario. A Wizard that is grappling a monk or fighter, is being ambushed and targetted by a sneak atack from a Rogue they aren't aware of, is being covered by a Ranger with a bow, etc. possibly has some issues. </p><p> </p><p>As a DM, I've often used tactics specifically designed to contain mages. These tactics I don't consider "targetting" but very real world solutions which inhabitants of a DnD world would employ on a regular basis to shut down the enemy artillery so to speak. Sleep deprivation is one. If I have a large scale opposing force against the PCs, they will skirmish throughout the night, especially if a mage is present. Why? So nobody gets any sleep and thus certain casters don't get spells. Sure some items can cancel the need for sleep, but its never assumed they have them. </p><p> </p><p>Dedicated Counterspell forces embedded in organized groups is another. Sorcerers whose job it is to shut down spellcasters (dispel spam / feats) or melee types who focus specifically on disrupting spells (through damage or grappling). You can make a mage need to change his robes when a group of robed lizard-folk monks drops out of their hiding spots in the trees, and starts tumbling through the front lines all focused on him.</p><p> </p><p>Do I do the same to fighters? Absolutely. For instance, I don't think it would have escaped any intelligent spellcaster's attention in a fantasy realm that confroms to the rules as DnD lays them out that most Fighters really have difficulty with Enchantment spells (Will saves). </p><p> </p><p>None of this I view as "Containing" mages, just using tactics which the inhabitants of these fantasy worlds would have all figured out "work".</p><p> </p><p>So back to the topic at hand - I'd just make sure I was using smart tactics both as a mage and a melee class before I started worrying about "nerfing" anything. But the rules do, I agree, start to bend at higher levels and maybe earlier depending on the specifics of the campaign.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="CuRoi, post: 5489956, member: 98032"] Since I chimed in support of the notion - I personally don't run low magic, low wealth campaigns simply to target Wizards. I do it for the type of story I'm trying to achieve. The flattening out of any power curve or perceived imbalance is simply a consequence. I see LOTS of games where every player starts with loads of magic items, (custom created to fully exploit the rules naturally) stats which are incredibly high on any point scale, and Wizards with cherry picked "broken" spells. The same games probably generate a lot of "OMG Wizards need to be NERFED!" buzz I would imagine. I mean, I do agree at higher levels I'm betting on a wizard in a fight, but in many cases, its like low level - it boils down to initiative and maybe surprise if it is to be had. I admit, a smart, fully prepared, unsurprised, I just won initiative and have some precast defensive spells Wizard is at the top of the pecking order. How much of that is due to intelligence depends on the scenario. A Wizard that is grappling a monk or fighter, is being ambushed and targetted by a sneak atack from a Rogue they aren't aware of, is being covered by a Ranger with a bow, etc. possibly has some issues. As a DM, I've often used tactics specifically designed to contain mages. These tactics I don't consider "targetting" but very real world solutions which inhabitants of a DnD world would employ on a regular basis to shut down the enemy artillery so to speak. Sleep deprivation is one. If I have a large scale opposing force against the PCs, they will skirmish throughout the night, especially if a mage is present. Why? So nobody gets any sleep and thus certain casters don't get spells. Sure some items can cancel the need for sleep, but its never assumed they have them. Dedicated Counterspell forces embedded in organized groups is another. Sorcerers whose job it is to shut down spellcasters (dispel spam / feats) or melee types who focus specifically on disrupting spells (through damage or grappling). You can make a mage need to change his robes when a group of robed lizard-folk monks drops out of their hiding spots in the trees, and starts tumbling through the front lines all focused on him. Do I do the same to fighters? Absolutely. For instance, I don't think it would have escaped any intelligent spellcaster's attention in a fantasy realm that confroms to the rules as DnD lays them out that most Fighters really have difficulty with Enchantment spells (Will saves). None of this I view as "Containing" mages, just using tactics which the inhabitants of these fantasy worlds would have all figured out "work". So back to the topic at hand - I'd just make sure I was using smart tactics both as a mage and a melee class before I started worrying about "nerfing" anything. But the rules do, I agree, start to bend at higher levels and maybe earlier depending on the specifics of the campaign. [/QUOTE]
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