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<blockquote data-quote="Mengu" data-source="post: 5809369" data-attributes="member: 65726">I'm with the &quot;ditch roles&quot; crowd, but probably for somewhat different reasons than some. While I'm a 4e fan, I thought roles were one of the worst straight jackets for class design. It seemed like when they slapped on &quot;leader&quot; role, they had to have a twice per encounter healing mechanic, when they slapped on &quot;defender&quot; role, they had to have a marking mechanic. And if you had the &quot;controller&quot; role or &quot;striker&quot; role you couldn't have those things. These straight jackets prohibited them from giving the invoker or original druid a once per encounter heal, and from giving the avenger a marking mechanic. It resulted in the warlord ending up with two &quot;healing words&quot; instead of perhaps a more fitting temporary hit point mechanic.I think these straight jackets needed to be ripped off, to allow for more freedom, and more fitting mechanics for each class in its own right.I know the next edition is not even going to have a hint of 4e, so these design examples are somewhat of a moot point, but the idea remains. Roles as defined in 4e are too restrictive as a design criteria.They're probably okay conceptually, for describing character function to beginners, and to those coming from the CRPG background. But even then, I prefer to talk about roles like &quot;hitter, hacker, grifter, thief, and mastermind&quot; rather than the 4e roles.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Mengu, post: 5809369, member: 65726"] I'm with the "ditch roles" crowd, but probably for somewhat different reasons than some. While I'm a 4e fan, I thought roles were one of the worst straight jackets for class design. It seemed like when they slapped on "leader" role, they had to have a twice per encounter healing mechanic, when they slapped on "defender" role, they had to have a marking mechanic. And if you had the "controller" role or "striker" role you couldn't have those things. These straight jackets prohibited them from giving the invoker or original druid a once per encounter heal, and from giving the avenger a marking mechanic. It resulted in the warlord ending up with two "healing words" instead of perhaps a more fitting temporary hit point mechanic. I think these straight jackets needed to be ripped off, to allow for more freedom, and more fitting mechanics for each class in its own right. I know the next edition is not even going to have a hint of 4e, so these design examples are somewhat of a moot point, but the idea remains. Roles as defined in 4e are too restrictive as a design criteria. They're probably okay conceptually, for describing character function to beginners, and to those coming from the CRPG background. But even then, I prefer to talk about roles like "hitter, hacker, grifter, thief, and mastermind" rather than the 4e roles. [/QUOTE]

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