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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5823019" data-attributes="member: 87792">Other than the continually debated Come and Get It, I'd appreciate you naming some.  Because I have never had this problem.  (I've seen monster power instances where I wanted to throw the rulebook at the designers - there's a bad one in Neverwinter - but not for PC powers).As I've demonstrated, a fighter is much better at stepping on a rogue's toes in 4e than they are in 3e.  There is acutally very little niche protection in 4e - what there is is niche support.  Every class gets bonusses to perform in thier niche.  You seem to be assuming that people get penalties to other niches - which is a different matter.You can be good at just about whatever you want to with a 4e character and a little work.  But to be truly outstanding you normally have to focus your class.Play Essentials and pick a martial type.  *shrug*Good.  Because you don't need to do this in 4e.  There is no equivalent to spell prep.  You simply pick your powers once per level with the book open in front of you.  And picking on names and very basic fluff works.And you're working without the Essentials classes.  Which do have much simpler classes - I cheered for the slayer even though I have no wish at all to play one because it was a very simple class.You mean after two years.  The PHB was published in June 2008 Heroes of the Forgotten Lands was published in November 2010.  That's less time than it took the 3.5 PHB to come out.They might for you.  But as I have demonstrated, almost every claim you have made about the impact of the 4e roles is simply not true. The roles succeeded.  You simply are ascribing a motivation to them that isn't there.The roles do two things.1: Keep the game designers focussed.  If you know you are designing a striker you end up with someone who does extra damage somehow.  You don't end up with a turkey of a class like the 3.X monk, the jack of no trades.  And you don't end up with a class like the 3.X Druid who can out-fight the fighter (as can his pet), heal extremely well (once SNA summons unicorns you can challenge the cleric for best healer), and do area of effect damage like a wizard.2: Tell new players what they are getting themselves in for.  If you naively build a fighter you will be a defender with a secondary role of striker.  If you naively build a warlord you will be a leader and part time meat shield.  It's a good way for players who don't know what they want to play to narrow down over two dozen classes to one more likely to fit what they want.It's a guideline not a straightjacket.  You are arguing against the roles doing a job that I see no evidence to show exists.</blockquote>

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