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Message: <blockquote data-quote="jgsugden" data-source="post: 9644349" data-attributes="member: 2629">In my setting I have 5 types of magic.  3 are delivered through the Weave (Arcane, Divine, Nature), one is internally generated (Psionics) and one if infused into the world (Supernatural).  I have 4E style rituals that use Supernatural power to enact magical effects.  These rely upon skill checks and resources - not levels and spell slots.  If you lack the power/resources or fail to exhibit the skill necessary the magic can escape your control and disastrous things can happen.  These are often used to make sacred spaces, bind creatures to a location, transform an enemy into a cursed form (medusa, undead, etc...), and there is no guaranteed success just because you're prepared.  Every roll has a chance of failure.  It is why this magic is used rarely - it is hard, dangerous and unreliable.Once enacted, these rituals tend to be permanent magics that can't be dispelled.  Dispel magic, detect magic, counterspell, etc... work on weave spells (arcane, divine, nature), but not psionics or supernatural magics.  So, to remove something created byone of these dangerous rituals, you need to perform another ritual.If you followed what I do, you'd have them 1.) Locate a counter-ritual that undoes the Supernatural 'spell' that charmed, and 2.) then gather resources to enact it.In my setting, the resources fall into three groups: 1.) Binders - these are thematic ingredients that (from a story telling perspective) make sense as they embody something about the magics to be performed.  For a charm it might be the tears of a Sylvan creature, the diary of a despicable liar, and a mirror.  Each binder is evaluated for how well the things gathered embody the spirit they are intended to evoke - the better the quality, the better the chance of success.  2.) Power Sources - these are creatures or objects that have Supernatural power that can be shifted into the ritual.  Good news: All living things have Supernatural energy.  Bad news: Draining it kills creatures.  One way to get this power is blood sacrifices, but there are others such as elemental power sources, Shadowfell/Feywild rifts, etc...  Again, these are graded on how powerful they are and that influences the chance of success.3.) Guidance - These are the conduits through which the Supernatural force of the Binders and Power Sources deliver their energy to the ritual.  Each ritual caster needs to develop their own.  The DM scores these by how well they embody the idea of a conduit and the identity of the caster.  The higher the score, the more power can be delivered from a Binder or Power Source.Once the ritual is begin, things can go wrong:1.) The Guidance caps how much can be delivered.  If the Power Source or Binder exceeds that limit, the excess energy makes the ritual harder to complete.2.) The amount of Binder and Power Source delivered isn't always a "the more the merrier" situation.  The greater the amount, the higher the difficulty in controlling the ritual ... and if you deliver too much of either, the difficulty goes up really fast.  You want to hit the sweet spot on both - but that is hard to hit.3.) Then I use a system reminiscent of a skill challenge to have the ritual caster enact the ritual, draw the Binder/Power Source energies via the Guidance and complete the ritual.  If it is disrupted, if the challenge fails, or if something else goes wrong I have a predefined system for things that can happen - which include curses, being drawn through planes, corruptions, and other Supernatural style events.  My real world 'tome' devoted to these rituals is about 200 pages long and the high level description above is only a fraction of the detail.  However, it serves a good role in my campaign ... proving an avenue for magics that you don't want in the hands of a wizard/cleric/druid casually, even as a 9th level spell.  These tend to be more Mythic level magics (which many have compared to Netherese magics for those Forgotten Realms fans) - although there are more mundane uses that are appropriate as ways to deal with Supernatural foes like Fey Spirits, Ethereal undead, Shadow creatures, and Aberrations of the Far Realms ... and all the manifestations that accompany them.  As such, I've had 5th level PCs successfully use these Rituals - although not always with success...</blockquote>

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