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<blockquote data-quote="nevin" data-source="post: 9331016" data-attributes="member: 7024481">first you have to agree what the wizard's places in the game are.&nbsp;&nbsp; I'd start by redoing wizard generalist, then come up with the specialty versions of wizard you want to fill in stuff desired.&nbsp; Generalist should be the standard Utility wizard, the one every one on the forums who hates wizard talks about.&nbsp;&nbsp; I'd have a damage dealing specialist, a knowledge or diviner specialist, an artificer specialist, a battlefield controller specialist, and a summoning specialist. Then I'd redo all the spell lists from 4th to 9th level and have seperate lists of spells even if there was some overlap so that each specialist had a viable useful position in a game that a 20th level Generalist wizard couldn't just bypass or do as well.&nbsp;&nbsp; I'd force all the really powerful spells like clone, wish, etc back to using experience and require mythical spell components that not only have to be obtained but are a freaking pain to preserve and transport back.&nbsp; For instance that dragon heart has to be kept fresh, cant leave the plain and you can't cast any mortal magic on it. (perhaps a bit over the top but think of this as a worst case for say a&nbsp; clone component, and no you can't cast it at the dragon because you have to have the storage place already built and ready .&nbsp; Unless you can restrain the dragon while you prep the vault in his lair. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":-)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :-)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":-)" />....heh).&nbsp; Players would whine but some things should be hard.&nbsp;&nbsp; I'd codify what I've already got in my own homebrew the rules for what happens and who intervenes when a wizard fucks with reality enough.&nbsp;&nbsp; A wizard who makes multiple clones for example, a guy wishing all willy nilly everytime he wants something, The diviner who manages to understand and then subvert the will of the gods, the summoner who starts calling HIGH level creatures from other planes and using them to do things against thier alignment all of these things would have consequences.&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; A wish to heal the party might not be noticed but a wish to bring that 20th level cleric back from heaven bypassing thier god, could bring some unwanted attention and the mage should be worried about that.&nbsp;&nbsp; And yes before anyone goes there, its by design that the 20th level cleric doesn't get that when he or she does it.&nbsp; They are asking divine permission thier god can always say no.&nbsp; &nbsp; Really in my opinion the only reason the wizard is broken is DM's aren't taught to make consequences part of the game.&nbsp; But I do concede that close to 50 years of ad hoc spell additions and &quot;cool&quot; supplements have broken the class if the wizard has access to everything.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="nevin, post: 9331016, member: 7024481"] first you have to agree what the wizard's places in the game are. I'd start by redoing wizard generalist, then come up with the specialty versions of wizard you want to fill in stuff desired. Generalist should be the standard Utility wizard, the one every one on the forums who hates wizard talks about. I'd have a damage dealing specialist, a knowledge or diviner specialist, an artificer specialist, a battlefield controller specialist, and a summoning specialist. Then I'd redo all the spell lists from 4th to 9th level and have seperate lists of spells even if there was some overlap so that each specialist had a viable useful position in a game that a 20th level Generalist wizard couldn't just bypass or do as well. I'd force all the really powerful spells like clone, wish, etc back to using experience and require mythical spell components that not only have to be obtained but are a freaking pain to preserve and transport back. For instance that dragon heart has to be kept fresh, cant leave the plain and you can't cast any mortal magic on it. (perhaps a bit over the top but think of this as a worst case for say a clone component, and no you can't cast it at the dragon because you have to have the storage place already built and ready . Unless you can restrain the dragon while you prep the vault in his lair. :-)....heh). Players would whine but some things should be hard. I'd codify what I've already got in my own homebrew the rules for what happens and who intervenes when a wizard fucks with reality enough. A wizard who makes multiple clones for example, a guy wishing all willy nilly everytime he wants something, The diviner who manages to understand and then subvert the will of the gods, the summoner who starts calling HIGH level creatures from other planes and using them to do things against thier alignment all of these things would have consequences. A wish to heal the party might not be noticed but a wish to bring that 20th level cleric back from heaven bypassing thier god, could bring some unwanted attention and the mage should be worried about that. And yes before anyone goes there, its by design that the 20th level cleric doesn't get that when he or she does it. They are asking divine permission thier god can always say no. Really in my opinion the only reason the wizard is broken is DM's aren't taught to make consequences part of the game. But I do concede that close to 50 years of ad hoc spell additions and "cool" supplements have broken the class if the wizard has access to everything. [/QUOTE]

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