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How would you redo 4e?
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<blockquote data-quote="RangerWickett" data-source="post: 8944882" data-attributes="member: 63"><p>Oh, there are some conditions that could probably be gated with 'minor' and 'major' versions, and a presumption that the real "nerf the enemy into pointlessness" ones could be downgraded by boss monsters - akin to legendary resistances.</p><p></p><p>I ran a party against Lolth, and the first round they could reach her, she was knocked prone, dazed, and give -6 to her attack rolls. They locked that goddess down something good, and the combat was boring.</p><p></p><p>Per overgeeked's ideas: </p><p></p><p></p><p>Agreed on 1 definitely. For 2, I think simply lowering the number of modifiers (and simultaneously lowering the amount of HP) would reduce the cognitive load of running combat.</p><p></p><p>When writing the Adventures in ZEITGEIST setting guide, I think I finally hit upon a good way to fix skill challenges. You foreground the narrative by having specific obstacles that must be overcome, and then you allow different skill checks to be directed at one obstacle or another. And yeah, 'clocks' work. Or in the case of a lot of ZEITGEIST spycraft stuff, you split up the "reconnaissance" and "mission" time, to let some PCs use some skills to prep their way through obstacles, while other PCs can overcome them in the moment.</p><p></p><p>Finally, there needs to be a <em>smidge</em> of granularity. Instead of failures being failures, they up the stakes. A single failed check means you have increased the peril. You can give up and just fail. If you try again, you increase the DC (or get disadvantage, in 5e), and might succeed. But if you try again and fail, there's some bonus negative consequence beyond failure.</p><p></p><p>Skill challenges just need to link the dice rolling and DCs more clearly to actual stuff going on in the narrative.</p><p></p><p>I'm intrigued by that, but I'd need to see it in practice. Like, if you're going through a dungeon, kicking down doors and fighting incidental oozes and wandering zombies, could you just have a battle map, and treat things as minions? How 'zoomed out' can you get before the dice rolling feels like it's no longer part of a compelling narrative?</p><p></p><p>Man, I tried like three times to build a skeletal version of 4e combat powers, sort of styled on the 3.5 book Elements of Magic, where you had 'points' you could spend to add different conditions or riders or damage or range or whatever.</p><p></p><p>I think it would have been cool for, like, a paladin to get to a new level and to design her <em>own</em> new magical smite, for instance. I never took the time to flesh it out enough to be a full system, though.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="RangerWickett, post: 8944882, member: 63"] Oh, there are some conditions that could probably be gated with 'minor' and 'major' versions, and a presumption that the real "nerf the enemy into pointlessness" ones could be downgraded by boss monsters - akin to legendary resistances. I ran a party against Lolth, and the first round they could reach her, she was knocked prone, dazed, and give -6 to her attack rolls. They locked that goddess down something good, and the combat was boring. Per overgeeked's ideas: Agreed on 1 definitely. For 2, I think simply lowering the number of modifiers (and simultaneously lowering the amount of HP) would reduce the cognitive load of running combat. When writing the Adventures in ZEITGEIST setting guide, I think I finally hit upon a good way to fix skill challenges. You foreground the narrative by having specific obstacles that must be overcome, and then you allow different skill checks to be directed at one obstacle or another. And yeah, 'clocks' work. Or in the case of a lot of ZEITGEIST spycraft stuff, you split up the "reconnaissance" and "mission" time, to let some PCs use some skills to prep their way through obstacles, while other PCs can overcome them in the moment. Finally, there needs to be a [I]smidge[/I] of granularity. Instead of failures being failures, they up the stakes. A single failed check means you have increased the peril. You can give up and just fail. If you try again, you increase the DC (or get disadvantage, in 5e), and might succeed. But if you try again and fail, there's some bonus negative consequence beyond failure. Skill challenges just need to link the dice rolling and DCs more clearly to actual stuff going on in the narrative. I'm intrigued by that, but I'd need to see it in practice. Like, if you're going through a dungeon, kicking down doors and fighting incidental oozes and wandering zombies, could you just have a battle map, and treat things as minions? How 'zoomed out' can you get before the dice rolling feels like it's no longer part of a compelling narrative? Man, I tried like three times to build a skeletal version of 4e combat powers, sort of styled on the 3.5 book Elements of Magic, where you had 'points' you could spend to add different conditions or riders or damage or range or whatever. I think it would have been cool for, like, a paladin to get to a new level and to design her [I]own[/I] new magical smite, for instance. I never took the time to flesh it out enough to be a full system, though. [/QUOTE]
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