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<blockquote data-quote="Undrave" data-source="post: 8949513" data-attributes="member: 7015698">I'Ve seen it plenty of times in 4e. I've seen plenty of boring 5e combats too. Even without the labels though, the monsters have those roles built in with what stats they have and what they do. A skirmisher can disengage, a lurker can become invisible, a Controller has area of Effects, a Brute lots of HP and hits hard despite being relatively innacurate, a Soldier is basically a Fighter and a Leader unit will be able to help their allies. 4e's biggest crime was no longer pretending those things, as well as class roles, never existed. They've always been there. 4e was just being honest about it and about being a game. People hated their game reminding them they were playing a game.That's what YOU have. Unless the DM has a plan with Control Water then it doesn't matter if a NPC has that on their spell list.4e had lore for outside of combat, it was outside the stat block because the Stat block was there for the DM to make use of during combat, putting everything in an handy dandy easy to reference block. Every monster entry in the MM even had a list of things PC could know about those monsters with the correct knowledge check result, usually in three different level.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Undrave, post: 8949513, member: 7015698"] I'Ve seen it plenty of times in 4e. I've seen plenty of boring 5e combats too. Even without the labels though, the monsters have those roles built in with what stats they have and what they do. A skirmisher can disengage, a lurker can become invisible, a Controller has area of Effects, a Brute lots of HP and hits hard despite being relatively innacurate, a Soldier is basically a Fighter and a Leader unit will be able to help their allies. 4e's biggest crime was no longer pretending those things, as well as class roles, never existed. They've always been there. 4e was just being honest about it and about being a game. People hated their game reminding them they were playing a game. That's what YOU have. Unless the DM has a plan with Control Water then it doesn't matter if a NPC has that on their spell list. 4e had lore for outside of combat, it was outside the stat block because the Stat block was there for the DM to make use of during combat, putting everything in an handy dandy easy to reference block. Every monster entry in the MM even had a list of things PC could know about those monsters with the correct knowledge check result, usually in three different level. [/QUOTE]

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