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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 8950056" data-attributes="member: 82106">How would that work? I mean, they are divided now by which class they belong to (aside from those granted by Power of Skill or other feats). I guess I'm trying to understand how this would practically work and how it would improve things. The purpose of Utility as a category was to make it so that ALL characters would have some, instead of the old "oh, I can climb better or kill better, I'll pick the killing" problem. Dividing them into, say "mobility" and "skill" is going to do what? I'm going to have to take some of each? How many of these lanes are there and how do we allow for an adequate allocation from each one without everyone ending up needing to make 100 power choices, and then remember how 100 different highly niche utilities work? Honestly I feel like rituals mostly fill this niche. A mechanism for 'instant casting' of ritual effects might be nice, like "make it into a potion" or something (my game allows for this kind of 'instantiation' of things). That would maybe pull them closer to utilities and make the difference more seamless.I am not against color, but this sort of thing is MOSTLY color. Its a lock, it keeps the door closed, its DC is 19. The DMG1 actually DOES have a section on this sort of thing, though I'm not sure it delves into enormous detail. It does have a whole chart on what sorts of materials things are made of at different levels. I gotta say though, rereading the PHB1 skill descriptions, they are PRETTY DETAILED! Acrobatics gets an entire page, roughly and covers stunts, balance, escape, and decreasing falling damage. This is all in addition to the general description and some examples. Bluff is a bit less voluminous but its explained what it covers, what typically opposes it, and provides explicit rules for a couple use cases. Honestly, I think the specific thing you are asking for, you have to go to the DMG, or use your imagination. I have certainly never read EVERY edition's equivalent rules, but I don't think any of them states anything more explicitly here than 4e does.I'm not sure what you mean about 'scaling indefinitely'... The idea with 4e is that your environment is appropriate to your level, thematically. At level 1 the dungeon is next to the town, and level 11 it is deep in the Underdark, at level 21 it is on the uppermost layer of Hell. This may have an impact on how some rules play out, but mostly its there to convey how badass you are at those higher levels, and to 'be cool'. The scaling is simply there to tell us, "this is a place for Epic PCs, those level 11 guys cannot even pass the DCs to get in the front door." Obviously you also leverage this if there's a situation where things are 'out of place', like showing us a level 21 door in the level 11 dungeon, you ain't opening it (or else this is a serious challenge and probably its not treated as a single DC at level 11). It will be 'Adamantium' or some such thing, the exact adjectives used are not very relevant in game terms.As for the endless rat race... Open ended skill systems where you have to keep picking small incremental increases in your ability are indeed what I would call "awful nothingburger rat race." Your character must constantly allocate N pips of his skill increases to Pick Locks, or else soon he will useless in this capacity since he'll be encountering magical Adamantium toggle-locks at some point with DCs far above his ability unless he does so. Sure, in 3e I can be a thief that is 20th level and can still only pick crappy chests that show up in level 1 dungeons. So what? You want me to go play that out? I mean, really? 4e's solution is quite workable, you take Thievery proficiency, and you now get +5 on lock picking attempts, and then you get all your other level-scaling bonuses, which means you're really good at it, and nope, you never had to decide between "good at ropes" and "good at locks" at each bloody level! If you don't WANT to be very good with locks, well don't take the proficiency, or just don't pick locks! From an RP perspective you can simply say "Yeah, let the other guy do it, locks aren't my thing." I mean, granted, that is the price of a lower resolution skill system, but its a perfectly workable solution (and most players will be perfectly happy to pick a lock now and then and not care).</blockquote>

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