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How would you redo 4e?
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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 8968576" data-attributes="member: 6790260"><p>The problem for me isn't (really) the realism. It's that it doesn't tell good tales.</p><p></p><p>Failing 20% of the time when you are (allegedly) the world's leading expert on arcanology means <em>you aren't really an expert.</em> The kinds of stories you can tell are sharply limited because <em>nobody</em> is really an expert...unless they juice up with magic.</p><p></p><p>What kind of story is served by the slightly clever Rogue (+2 Int) knowing obscure magic facts 10% of the time while the literally world-renowned wizard who knows as much as anyone fails so often?</p><p></p><p>And it isn't just me here. There was a complaint right at the beginning of 5e about Asmodeus, where even the very best Deception characters couldn't reliably succeed at lying to Asmodeus himself, the prince of lies, but a <em>random peasant</em> had a 25% chance of doing so. Again, to be clear, this <em>isn't</em> about realism. It is about how many stories get cut off because being a true, actual expert who reliably succeeds at hard things (e.g., would only fail one time in 20, if that) is literally <em>impossible</em> for players to achieve...unless they get juiced up with magic. Even getting to +15 is impossible for most characters, since Expertise only comes from two classes and a couple feats (which many DMs are keen to emphasize are <em>optional</em>, by which they <em>mean</em> "forbidden.")</p><p></p><p>But this is off topic.</p><p></p><p>One way I would go about fixing 4e would be doing more to give default flavor to each power, <em>but also</em> make it really clear both THAT that flavor can change, and tools for HOW to change it if players/DMs want them. Some of this was there, but a lot of it showed up late...partially due to the "Purple Wyvern" thing (or whatever that preview feat was that made people SO ANGRY for no reason.)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 8968576, member: 6790260"] The problem for me isn't (really) the realism. It's that it doesn't tell good tales. Failing 20% of the time when you are (allegedly) the world's leading expert on arcanology means [I]you aren't really an expert.[/I] The kinds of stories you can tell are sharply limited because [I]nobody[/I] is really an expert...unless they juice up with magic. What kind of story is served by the slightly clever Rogue (+2 Int) knowing obscure magic facts 10% of the time while the literally world-renowned wizard who knows as much as anyone fails so often? And it isn't just me here. There was a complaint right at the beginning of 5e about Asmodeus, where even the very best Deception characters couldn't reliably succeed at lying to Asmodeus himself, the prince of lies, but a [I]random peasant[/I] had a 25% chance of doing so. Again, to be clear, this [I]isn't[/I] about realism. It is about how many stories get cut off because being a true, actual expert who reliably succeeds at hard things (e.g., would only fail one time in 20, if that) is literally [I]impossible[/I] for players to achieve...unless they get juiced up with magic. Even getting to +15 is impossible for most characters, since Expertise only comes from two classes and a couple feats (which many DMs are keen to emphasize are [I]optional[/I], by which they [I]mean[/I] "forbidden.") But this is off topic. One way I would go about fixing 4e would be doing more to give default flavor to each power, [I]but also[/I] make it really clear both THAT that flavor can change, and tools for HOW to change it if players/DMs want them. Some of this was there, but a lot of it showed up late...partially due to the "Purple Wyvern" thing (or whatever that preview feat was that made people SO ANGRY for no reason.) [/QUOTE]
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How would you redo 4e?
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