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How would you wish WOTC to do Dark Sun
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<blockquote data-quote="Haldrik" data-source="post: 8054384" data-attributes="member: 6694221"><p>Someone I know had the book Earth Air, Fire and Water. I am just starting to read it now.</p><p></p><p>One thing I really like that is less obvious in other settings is: the Elemental Planes are DEPENDENT on the Material Plane. In other words, as the planet Athas runs out of water, Elemental Plane of Water is likewise vanishing too, and will eventually cease to exist.</p><p></p><p>In this way, the Four Elemental Planes are echos of the Matter of the Material Plane.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The book doesnt mention this, but each Elemental Plane could include Deep and Shallow. The Shallow Elemental Plane of Water is all the Water − and only the Water − that exists in the Material. One only sees pools of animated water echoing the mundane life of creatures and water bodies within the Material. Deeper into the Element, the Water takes on a life of its own, and Water Elementals inhabit there. Compare the Ethereal Plane with its Shallow observing the Material and its Deep detaching from it. In any case, when the Water of Athas disappears, the Water of the Water Plane disappears too.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I am less enthusiastic about Elemental Clerics "serving" Elementals, too similar to worship, and too personal.</p><p></p><p>This quote is wrongminded: "They say there were once gods other than elementals." The elements arent "gods". Stop trying to turn them into gods. It actually ruins the setting that is supposed to be nontheistic. Let elements be elements. An impersonal force.</p><p></p><p>I strongly prefer the Elements as impersonal forces that require attunement and harmonization. Compare Daoism. Compare the setting of Avatar The Last Airbender.</p><p></p><p>That said. Clerics can have Elementals as allies. That is cool. And allies have mutual responsibilities. So in addition to attunement with an Element, any individual and community alliances with the minds of Elementals can also shape agendas among the Clerics of a particular Element. And where some Humanoid Clerics actually transmute themselves into Elementals leaving their mortal bodies behind, that sounds awesome. The Avangion appears to be a kind of epic level Elemental who was formerly Humanoid. Mainly, the Avangion is a Water Elemental, but seems to be able to include other Elements, and perhaps even the healing energy of the Positive Energy Plane.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Still reading.</p><p></p><p></p><p>The status of the Elements seems less sensical. The book tries to describe how all Four Elements are endangered. However, self-evidently, Fire is doing just fine, thankyouverymuch.</p><p></p><p>What is actually happening is that Fire is way out of control, far too excessive, way out of balance. Thus the HARMONY among the Four Elements is increasingly damaged.</p><p></p><p>Athas is a planet. And there is lots and lots and lots of earth. The earth is decreasingly fertile, but the earth itself abundant. Fertile soil comes when Earth is in HARMONY with the other three Elements. Water of rain pours down to make Earth able to sustain life. A fiery sun comes to bring plants, and sometimes a dry summer and lightning flash brings cleansing Fire to add a layer of fertile soil for future generations of plants. It is the Air that can expand and encompass the other elements, enabling them to interact with each other in a harmonious ecosystem. And animals breath the life-giving air from the plants and eat the plants to sustain.</p><p></p><p>There is so much Fire. Too much Fire. Beyond the lava underground comprising much of the entire planet, there is the baking heat of a wrathful sun.</p><p></p><p>The Water vanishes. (Wait. How? It has to go somewhere. No clouds? No seas? Is it underground?) Anyway the Water is rarifying. The harmony is undone.</p><p></p><p>The Air without a dynamic equilibrium is listless and still.</p><p></p><p>The Earth is bleak.</p><p></p><p>Life is Harmony. Life perishes across the planet of Athas.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Still reading.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Haldrik, post: 8054384, member: 6694221"] Someone I know had the book Earth Air, Fire and Water. I am just starting to read it now. One thing I really like that is less obvious in other settings is: the Elemental Planes are DEPENDENT on the Material Plane. In other words, as the planet Athas runs out of water, Elemental Plane of Water is likewise vanishing too, and will eventually cease to exist. In this way, the Four Elemental Planes are echos of the Matter of the Material Plane. The book doesnt mention this, but each Elemental Plane could include Deep and Shallow. The Shallow Elemental Plane of Water is all the Water − and only the Water − that exists in the Material. One only sees pools of animated water echoing the mundane life of creatures and water bodies within the Material. Deeper into the Element, the Water takes on a life of its own, and Water Elementals inhabit there. Compare the Ethereal Plane with its Shallow observing the Material and its Deep detaching from it. In any case, when the Water of Athas disappears, the Water of the Water Plane disappears too. I am less enthusiastic about Elemental Clerics "serving" Elementals, too similar to worship, and too personal. This quote is wrongminded: "They say there were once gods other than elementals." The elements arent "gods". Stop trying to turn them into gods. It actually ruins the setting that is supposed to be nontheistic. Let elements be elements. An impersonal force. I strongly prefer the Elements as impersonal forces that require attunement and harmonization. Compare Daoism. Compare the setting of Avatar The Last Airbender. That said. Clerics can have Elementals as allies. That is cool. And allies have mutual responsibilities. So in addition to attunement with an Element, any individual and community alliances with the minds of Elementals can also shape agendas among the Clerics of a particular Element. And where some Humanoid Clerics actually transmute themselves into Elementals leaving their mortal bodies behind, that sounds awesome. The Avangion appears to be a kind of epic level Elemental who was formerly Humanoid. Mainly, the Avangion is a Water Elemental, but seems to be able to include other Elements, and perhaps even the healing energy of the Positive Energy Plane. Still reading. The status of the Elements seems less sensical. The book tries to describe how all Four Elements are endangered. However, self-evidently, Fire is doing just fine, thankyouverymuch. What is actually happening is that Fire is way out of control, far too excessive, way out of balance. Thus the HARMONY among the Four Elements is increasingly damaged. Athas is a planet. And there is lots and lots and lots of earth. The earth is decreasingly fertile, but the earth itself abundant. Fertile soil comes when Earth is in HARMONY with the other three Elements. Water of rain pours down to make Earth able to sustain life. A fiery sun comes to bring plants, and sometimes a dry summer and lightning flash brings cleansing Fire to add a layer of fertile soil for future generations of plants. It is the Air that can expand and encompass the other elements, enabling them to interact with each other in a harmonious ecosystem. And animals breath the life-giving air from the plants and eat the plants to sustain. There is so much Fire. Too much Fire. Beyond the lava underground comprising much of the entire planet, there is the baking heat of a wrathful sun. The Water vanishes. (Wait. How? It has to go somewhere. No clouds? No seas? Is it underground?) Anyway the Water is rarifying. The harmony is undone. The Air without a dynamic equilibrium is listless and still. The Earth is bleak. Life is Harmony. Life perishes across the planet of Athas. Still reading. [/QUOTE]
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