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<blockquote data-quote="RenleyRenfield" data-source="post: 9624604" data-attributes="member: 7044197">It absolutely can not be a response in PBTA. &nbsp;PBTA and D&amp;D don't map to same roll results but if we were to try we have a few possibilities...option A:&nbsp; a D&amp;D result of 12 against DC 14 could mean a PBTA result of 7-9, in which case there are explicit move results listed (such as &quot;They do it, but it costs you extra, or they do it but they protect their agenda, etc etc = success &quot;I did it&quot; + complication) Option B: a D&amp;D result of 12 against DC 14 could mean a PBTA result of 6-, in which case the GM has a list of &quot;MC Moves&quot; they are to pick from.&nbsp; It's a wishy washy list, but its still an explicit response of &quot;The GM now states what thing happens in the fiction as a response to the roll.&quot; = this GM statement and advancement of the scene is required. There is a lost of MC moves in every PBTA book.&nbsp; (Remember, the thing about PBTA&nbsp; is that it has 'rules' for GM too.... this can often be why some gamers struggle with PBTA, as they try to run it like D&amp;D... the core concepts are just so different) Again, shifting labels comes as a &quot;Narrative response&quot; MC move.&nbsp; So its not just &quot;Joe, shift your labels.&quot; ,&nbsp; its = &quot;The man mocks you as you foot fails to break the chair, your are feeling less powerful, shift label to X&quot;...&nbsp; which is not at all what D&amp;D would ever do....&nbsp; (but is a cool response!) 100% Yes it is a specific failing of pass-fail.&nbsp; There is no rule, nor is there any guidance on how to handle failed rolls in pass fail games like D&amp;D (and if I recall, not in GURPS, Pathfinder or most all big brands...) all just state very explicitly &quot;the character failed.&quot; nothing happens or is expected to happen **(except in cases of damage, where it applies damage to a failed roll).&nbsp; Almost no pass fail system has a concept of &quot;success with complications if the character failed the roll&quot; or &quot;the GM should muck up drama on failed rolls&quot; in non-damage situations.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="RenleyRenfield, post: 9624604, member: 7044197"] It absolutely can [I]not [/I]be a response in PBTA. PBTA and D&D don't map to same roll results but if we were to try we have a few possibilities... option A: a D&D result of 12 against DC 14 could mean a PBTA result of [B]7-9[/B], in which case there are [B]explicit move results listed [/B](such as "They do it, but it costs you extra, or they do it but they protect their agenda, etc etc = success "I did it" + complication) Option B: a D&D result of 12 against DC 14 could mean a PBTA result of [B]6-[/B], in which case the [B]GM has a list of "MC Moves" they are to pick from[/B]. It's a wishy washy list, but its still an explicit response of [I]"The GM now states what thing happens in the fiction as a response to the roll."[/I] = this GM statement and advancement of the scene is required. There is a lost of MC moves in every PBTA book. (Remember, the thing about PBTA is that it has 'rules' for GM too.... this can often be why some gamers struggle with PBTA, as they try to [I]run [/I]it like D&D... the core concepts are just so different) Again, shifting labels comes as a [B]"Narrative response" MC move[/B]. So its not just [I]"Joe, shift your labels."[/I] , its = [I]"The man mocks you as you foot fails to break the chair, your are feeling less powerful, shift label to X"[/I]... which is not at all what D&D would ever do.... (but is a cool response!) 100% Yes it is a specific failing of pass-fail. [B]There is no rule, nor is there any guidance on how to handle failed rolls[/B] in pass fail games like D&D (and if I recall, not in GURPS, Pathfinder or most all big brands...) all just [B]state very explicitly "the character failed." [/B][I]nothing happens or is expected to happen[/I][B] **[/B](except in cases of [I]damage[/I], where it applies damage to a failed roll). Almost no pass fail system has a concept of "success with complications if the character failed the roll" or "the GM should muck up drama on failed rolls" in non-damage situations. [/QUOTE]

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