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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Clumsy Bob" data-source="post: 1244158" data-attributes="member: 6426">IMO this should apply to the failed save as well. Harm is one of those spells that have carried across all editions of D&D (sacred cow I think) like magic missle. I agree that in 3.0 it was far too powerful but I beleive that this had more to do with the vast increase in HP's that PC's and monsters have.For example in 1E the maximum hit points an ancient dragon would have is 88, but now it is 300+. To deal this damage in a 6th lvl spell is horrifing.As a compromise, and to keep the spirit of the original spell I would still maintain the damage dealt now, but still not allow the target to drop below 1HP.The reverse is applicable to heal, but I still feel there is a requirement for a higher level healing spell that can restore a creature to full HP's (or lose all in the inflict version) perhaps a greater heal/harm?ThoughtsBob</blockquote>