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Message: <blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 5995697" data-attributes="member: 2067">Part of the question is this: which side of the screen should the solution be on?If you bake something into the spells, then you just need to design each spell with some sort of breaking point in mind, and the breaking point should reflect that division between a Solo or Elite and some random bugbear, which is always going to be pretty metagame. The difference between a goblin and a goblin leader is that one is slightly more powerful than the other. If you bake something into the monsters, you don't need to worry about metagaming spells, but you do need to worry about re-printing that ability on each monster that is "meant to" be used as a Solo or Elite. You're doing this anyway with the Solo or Elite designation, but due to the variety of effects you'll be covering, the ability needs to be very broad. Personally, I kind of like the following idea:Any normal spell that can affect your actions (such as Sleep or Hold) is something that can be counteracted. On each round, a creature gets a save, and other creatures can grant them a save by an assist. Each spell effect has certain actions that can counter them: you can wake a sleeping person, or break the enchantment on a held person by inflicting some pain, or a charmed individual is disturbed if you say their name backwards, then forwards, then split in half and with the vowels flipped, or whatever (and anyone can do this -- it is a weakness of the spell itself). You can break it yourself with willpower over short amounts of time, and you can have other people help you break it easily (what else are minions for?)That's in general.There ARE spells that can render these effects permanently, that aren't so easy to counter-act. These may be the ritual versions of these spells, and will require a bit of material from the creature to be affected, as well as possibly odd delivery methods (think of the poisoned apple in Snow White, or of how a voodoo doll stereotypically can bind limbs). In game terms, these are more plot points than spell effects: a witch can impose an eternal sleep on the princess, but it's not so easy as chanting and spinning around a bit. It's expensive, time-consuming, and requires some prep work. They've also got level limits (nothing greater than your level!) and potential mundane solutions baked into the spell (you can't put anyone to sleep who wears silver around their neck). So, then you have the BBEG. They're the red dragon sitting on their hoard with the princess tied up. And if the PC's want to go in there guns blazing and slay the critter with swords and lightning bolts, that's awesome.But if the PC's want to use a more subtle tact...to try and trick the dragon into offering up one of its scales so that they can try and negate its fighting power...that's kind of awesome, too. Only, instead of the action-packed violence of the climax, it's tense Charisma checks and counter-bluffs and mind vs. minds. Rather than whittling down its HP to kill it, the party is trying to achieve trust to perform some magic on it. Instead of a climactic battle, we have a climactic conversation talking with it, or a climactic exploration trying to sneak around it, which is part of how you support those three pillars.Other classes should also have access to these things. These are things that should be baked into ability checks. If a sneaky rogue (or the lightly armored fighter) wants to be a super-assassin like that, they SHOULD be able to KO the dragon in one hit. If a silver-tongued rogue (or a persuasive bard or paladin) wants to try and talk down the dragon, they SHOULD be able to.You don't want to fight the dragon? Awesome. But you're going to have SOME climax with the thing. It's a multifaceted threat. And you can't just walk up to it and chant some words and have it be over. At least, not until you've already had some OTHER climax with it, if that's really what you want.</blockquote>

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