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<blockquote data-quote="Quickleaf" data-source="post: 7022035" data-attributes="member: 20323">I think the high-level control spells are meant to be taken in the context of a very different sort of game than many of us are used to playing. The defining feature of high-level is, I believe, a shift away from tactics toward longer-term strategy with moves and countermoves. Hard control high-level spells need to be viewed through that lens, rather than the lens of a single combat encounter. Also, this would magnify a verisimilitude issue that I have with sleep:A monster who you've hacked and stabbed and burned down to the appropriate HP threshold is suddenly...what...more susceptible to a sleep spell? What the Rust Monster!?! That makes no narrative sense...if anything an unsuspecting monster resting at ease or caught off-guard listening to a bard playing a tune should be more susceptible to a sleep spell in the narrative.That similar incredulity applies to other hard control spells you mention like maze or whirlwind.To work, narratively speaking, it requires the DM to narrate attack/spell damage in very non-intuitive ways such as &quot;hemming in an opponent by dealing 16 slashing damage, which by the way doesn't cause any noticeable bleeding besides maybe a scratch, it's more a blow to their morale, finding a chink in their armor for the right moment.&quot;</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Quickleaf, post: 7022035, member: 20323"] I think the high-level control spells are meant to be taken in the context of a very different sort of game than many of us are used to playing. The defining feature of high-level is, I believe, a shift away from tactics toward longer-term strategy with moves and countermoves. Hard control high-level spells need to be viewed through that lens, rather than the lens of a single combat encounter. Also, this would magnify a verisimilitude issue that I have with [I]sleep[/I]: A monster who you've hacked and stabbed and burned down to the appropriate HP threshold is suddenly...what...more susceptible to a [I]sleep[/I] spell? What the Rust Monster!?! That makes [I]no[/I] narrative sense...if anything an unsuspecting monster resting at ease or caught off-guard listening to a bard playing a tune should be more susceptible to a [I]sleep[/I] spell in the narrative. That similar incredulity applies to other hard control spells you mention like [I]maze[/I] or [I]whirlwind[/I]. To work, narratively speaking, it requires the DM to narrate attack/spell damage in very non-intuitive ways such as "hemming in an opponent by dealing 16 slashing damage, which by the way doesn't cause any noticeable bleeding besides maybe a scratch, it's more a blow to their morale, finding a chink in their armor for the right moment." [/QUOTE]

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