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<blockquote data-quote="cooperjer" data-source="post: 7022370" data-attributes="member: 6862150">I'm wondering if you're working to solve a problem that you perceive to be true, but have not seen in game play.&nbsp; The first post speaks mostly to high level spells causing significant change in an encounter.&nbsp; Later it's mentioned that lower level control spells are messing with an encounter.&nbsp; If you restated the concern in your second post with some detail on the level range that is causing problem, then I feel I would have a better grasp of what your real concern is.Several things jumped to mind as I read through the proposal and the responses.&nbsp; 1. Are the PCs encountering monsters that are such a low level that their save capability is very poor?&nbsp; 2. Are the PCs encountering monsters that have a poor save in a specific ability (i.e. Giants are going to perform differently than Kuo-Toa).&nbsp; 3. The table seems cumbersome.&nbsp; Is there a way to simplify it? 4. What if we look at it from a players point of view and consider a rule design that results with a spell always doing something, even with a failed save.Expanding on #4 may eliminate the table.&nbsp; It may require you to adjust the DCs of spells or increase the save ability of monsters.&nbsp; I'll suggest using a passive save.&nbsp; If the character exceeds the DC with the passive save then they are affected by the minor affect.&nbsp; If the passive save does not meet or exceed the DC then a roll can be performed to try and pass the DC.&nbsp; This reduces rolling, eliminates a table of HP look up, but would still require you to re-write control spells to include a minor effect.&nbsp; If you want you could use a value of 12, or any number of your liking, instead of 10 for the passive score starting point.Once you implement the idea into your game please post how it went.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="cooperjer, post: 7022370, member: 6862150"] I'm wondering if you're working to solve a problem that you perceive to be true, but have not seen in game play. The first post speaks mostly to high level spells causing significant change in an encounter. Later it's mentioned that lower level control spells are messing with an encounter. If you restated the concern in your second post with some detail on the level range that is causing problem, then I feel I would have a better grasp of what your real concern is. Several things jumped to mind as I read through the proposal and the responses. 1. Are the PCs encountering monsters that are such a low level that their save capability is very poor? 2. Are the PCs encountering monsters that have a poor save in a specific ability (i.e. Giants are going to perform differently than Kuo-Toa). 3. The table seems cumbersome. Is there a way to simplify it? 4. What if we look at it from a players point of view and consider a rule design that results with a spell always doing something, even with a failed save. Expanding on #4 may eliminate the table. It may require you to adjust the DCs of spells or increase the save ability of monsters. I'll suggest using a passive save. If the character exceeds the DC with the passive save then they are affected by the minor affect. If the passive save does not meet or exceed the DC then a roll can be performed to try and pass the DC. This reduces rolling, eliminates a table of HP look up, but would still require you to re-write control spells to include a minor effect. If you want you could use a value of 12, or any number of your liking, instead of 10 for the passive score starting point. Once you implement the idea into your game please post how it went. [/QUOTE]

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