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<blockquote data-quote="Snipehunt" data-source="post: 1163009" data-attributes="member: 13142">IMO, that rule is misguided.&nbsp; It doesn't make sense to me that a character with the concealment caused by shadowy illumination can't be sneak attacked with melee weapons.&nbsp; I buy that someone with total concealment (total darkness, fog, whatever) can't be sneak attacked, and I buy that magical concealment (blur, etc.) negates sneak attacks.&nbsp; Those effects make it difficult or impossible for the attacker to pick out a vulnerable point and get extra damage.&nbsp; But shadowy illumination doesn't totally conceal anybody, you just see them dimly.&nbsp; The character has concealment, not total concealment.&nbsp; This shouldn't have much affect if a character is directly adjacent to another.&nbsp; IME, I can see somebody right next to me pretty well in dim or shadowy light, and I've got pretty crappy night vision.&nbsp; Now, if you're 10 feet or more away, yeah, no way can I see well enough to use precision.&nbsp; I think that's what Ferret's getting at.&nbsp; Shadowy illumination isn't total concealment, unless you hide.&nbsp; It's 20% concealment.&nbsp; If you're next to somebody, the &quot;shadowy concealment&quot; shouldn't have much effect.IMRLC, we always ignore the SA defense of shadowy illumination.&nbsp; Now that I think about it, I think we generally ignore the shadowy illusion concealment affect all the time.Also, doesn't it cut against the drain that a mugger can't sneak attack a victim in a dark alley?&nbsp; That's kind of the basis of sneak attack.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Snipehunt, post: 1163009, member: 13142"] IMO, that rule is misguided. It doesn't make sense to me that a character with the concealment caused by shadowy illumination can't be sneak attacked with melee weapons. I buy that someone with total concealment (total darkness, fog, whatever) can't be sneak attacked, and I buy that magical concealment (blur, etc.) negates sneak attacks. Those effects make it difficult or impossible for the attacker to pick out a vulnerable point and get extra damage. But shadowy illumination doesn't totally conceal anybody, you just see them dimly. The character has concealment, not total concealment. This shouldn't have much affect if a character is directly adjacent to another. IME, I can see somebody right next to me pretty well in dim or shadowy light, and I've got pretty crappy night vision. Now, if you're 10 feet or more away, yeah, no way can I see well enough to use precision. I think that's what Ferret's getting at. Shadowy illumination isn't total concealment, unless you hide. It's 20% concealment. If you're next to somebody, the "shadowy concealment" shouldn't have much effect. IMRLC, we always ignore the SA defense of shadowy illumination. Now that I think about it, I think we generally ignore the shadowy illusion concealment affect all the time. Also, doesn't it cut against the drain that a mugger can't sneak attack a victim in a dark alley? That's kind of the basis of sneak attack. [/QUOTE]

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